Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Irata0062 · 06-03-2003, 02:59 PM

I just read this. One thing stood out to me. I have put it in bold.

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America has just won, and quickly, a war with Iraq.

A war which was, in the end, popular both here at home and by all accounts with the majority of the Iraqi people.

On Tuesday, George Bush signed the third-largest tax cut in American history. With all the savage attacks on Attorney General John Ashcroft, even the most ardent "don't interfere with my privacy rights" leftists can do little more than mutter in agreement with the fact that this administration has done something right - there hasn't been a terrorist attack on American soil in almost two years.

The rest of the column
[Note that this link does not appear permanent.]
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What makes me mad about that is she basically implies that we were getting bombed right and left. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Oklahoma the last "terrorist" attack on american soil before 9/11?

Just frustrated by this.

Hubble head · 06-03-2003, 03:15 PM

This is not news, although it�s written as such.

It�s 100% opinion. Goebbles would be proud.

Is this lady an agoraphobic by chance? She doesn't seem to be looking outside or watching anything but MSNBC and Faux.

It's actually a pretty simple brainwashing technique some call "prominence of being". Green Ops: Are You Being Manipulated? By saying "EVERYBODY else is doing it" and essentially "if YOU are not doing it, your an outdated, out of step, out of touch twitbrained pig faced welfare loving icky liberal moron" she draws the uncritical mouth breathing part of our population closer to their fray.

eldar1011 · 06-03-2003, 03:18 PM

Quote:

And conservative writers like Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Mona Charen, David Frum and Bernard Goldberg are standard fare on best-seller lists.

Quote:

Consider this: Almost every time a conservative politicians or other leaders talk about liberal agendas and policies, they say, "Well, liberals mean well -- even though when it comes to their views on (fill in the blank) -- national security, social welfare programs, high taxes, radical feminism/environmentalism -- even though their agenda has been shown to be a failure, liberals are good people, they want to do the right thing. . ."

Anyone else see a problem with these two quotes from the column?

Optional · 06-03-2003, 03:19 PM

I am constantly amazed by the way conservative republicans can do and believe and be one thing while at the same time labeling it as something completely other.

Liberals are mean??? One of the local conservative AM radio hacks around here had that line too and it simply baffles me. How could anyone possibly listen to Rush, WannabeRush Hannity, NotEnoughClassToBeRush Savage, et al and come up with the strange idea that liberals are mean??? No, really, I'm asking here, how can anybody possibly actually believe that?

As for the administration doing something right, the previous poster nailed it... There has been precisely one successful terrorist attack on american soil by foreigners in the past century or so. The fact that it is seen as something of an achievement that we've gone two whole years without another one is one of the most damning things I can think of about bushlite and crew.

-me

lpetrich · 06-03-2003, 03:28 PM

I wonder how much she was paid to write this twaddle.

She ought to look at the sort of anti-liberal vituperation that many right-wingers seem to enjoy spouting; you get the impression from them that liberals are traitorious, lying, bigoted mad dogs and wreckers and enemies of the American people. Yes, Ann Coulter often seems rather Stalinist.

Also, right-wingers' claiming to support "liberal" goals is pure posturing -- it's intended to get people on their side and only that. It's a sort of Machiavellianism that the Left is not very good at.

And I think that many right-wingers engage in projection -- projecting their embarrassing features onto "liberals" / "the left".

Thus, they often sound exactly like what they accuse liberals of being.

AzJeff · 06-03-2003, 03:39 PM

Quote:

With all the savage attacks on Attorney General John Ashcroft, even the most ardent "don't interfere with my privacy rights" leftists can do little more than mutter in agreement with the fact that this administration has done something right - there hasn't been a terrorist attack on American soil in almost two years.

Ms. Hart needs a a refresher course in logic 101:

fallacies

John Hancock · 06-03-2003, 04:13 PM

I'm so pissed. I came from blue colar and believe in labor unions. Have all ways believed in the constitution. Fact is I took an oath to defend it and was front line combat during tet. What in the fuck does this Rush boo boo Butt and the rest of these chickenhawk soulless sliver spoon fed bastards think gives them the right to tell me what Patriotism is? I wanta run amuck in their little world. (with a K-bar)

Martin Buber

Hubble head · 06-03-2003, 04:21 PM

Quote:

I'm so pissed. I came from blue colar and believe in labor unions. Have all ways believed in the constitution. Fact is I took an oath to defend it and was front line combat during tet. What in the fuck does this Rush boo boo Butt and the rest of these chickenhawk soulless sliver spoon fed bastards think gives them the right to tell me what Patriotism is? I wanta run amuck in their little world. (with a K-bar)

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Besides Liddy(felon) and Ollie(felon), did any of the other right wing haughty-taughty jackals serve for this country?

Fjordaniv · 06-03-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

iberalism as we know it today is just plain ugly, divisive, selfish, and even downright mean. Consider this: Almost every time a conservative politicians or other leaders talk about liberal agendas and policies, they say, "Well, liberals mean well -- even though when it comes to their views on (fill in the blank) -- national security, social welfare programs, high taxes, radical feminism/environmentalism -- even though their agenda has been shown to be a failure, liberals are good people, they want to do the right thing. . ."

This truly defies logic: the party that supports consumerism, labels opponents as traitors and dominates the airwaves playing victim? Of course, slaveowners in the 1840s claimed the same thing about those nasty abolitionists.

Quote:

Where conservatives preach inclusiveness, "a tax-cut for
everyone, because we want everyone to do better" an end to racial preferences "because they are so divisive and don't help the people they are meant to," liberal activists consistently pit one class, race or even age group against another.

Race and class warfare is mother's milk to them.

That's why the change. I'm convinced that Americans are more and more seeing through the divisiveness and disingenuousness of the left and rejecting it.

Or they aren't having a chance to see it at all. The media isn't exactly well balanced these days:http://www.monthlyreview.org/0603editr.htm

The only thing disingenuous here is the assumption that the corporate media's wholesale throttling of the Left hasn't contributed to the "rise" of the right in the first place.

Of course, I simply don't recognize the unfortunate position conservatives have found themselves in, thanks to the hostility we liberals have shown towards them over the years .
:boohoo:

This, coming from the people who's supporters regularly use such inclusive phrases as "turd world nations," "feminazis," "traitors" and "shut up." Such magnanimity (I won't even go into the recent statements by senators).

Fjordaniv · 06-03-2003, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hubble head
This is not news, although it?s written as such.

It?s 100% opinion. Goebbles would be proud.

Is this lady an agoraphobic by chance? She doesn't seem to be looking outside or watching anything but MSNBC and Faux.

It's actually a pretty simple brainwashing technique some call "prominence of being". Green Ops: Are You Being Manipulated? By saying "EVERYBODY else is doing it" and essentially "if YOU are not doing it, your an outdated, out of step, out of touch twitbrained pig faced welfare loving icky liberal moron" she draws the uncritical mouth breathing part of our population closer to their fray.

An fascinating link, and quite appropriate (although I'm leary of the section linking Communism and Nazism). Chomsky referred to articles such as this as "flak," a means of cowing the media into line by seeking out and exposing "bias," and those who supposedly promulgate the said bias.

Fred

06-03-2003, 02:59 PM	#1
Irata0062 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 24	Nice new column by Betsy Hart I just read this. One thing stood out to me. I have put it in bold. ---------------------------------------------------------------- America has just won, and quickly, a war with Iraq. A war which was, in the end, popular both here at home and by all accounts with the majority of the Iraqi people. On Tuesday, George Bush signed the third-largest tax cut in American history. With all the savage attacks on Attorney General John Ashcroft, even the most ardent "don't interfere with my privacy rights" leftists can do little more than mutter in agreement with the fact that this administration has done something right - there hasn't been a terrorist attack on American soil in almost two years. The rest of the column [Note that this link does not appear permanent.] ----------------------------------------------------------------- What makes me mad about that is she basically implies that we were getting bombed right and left. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Oklahoma the last "terrorist" attack on american soil before 9/11? Just frustrated by this.

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06-03-2003, 03:15 PM	#2
Hubble head Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Corn rows Posts: 4,570	This is not news, although it�s written as such. It�s 100% opinion. Goebbles would be proud. Is this lady an agoraphobic by chance? She doesn't seem to be looking outside or watching anything but MSNBC and Faux. It's actually a pretty simple brainwashing technique some call "prominence of being". Green Ops: Are You Being Manipulated? By saying "EVERYBODY else is doing it" and essentially "if YOU are not doing it, your an outdated, out of step, out of touch twitbrained pig faced welfare loving icky liberal moron" she draws the uncritical mouth breathing part of our population closer to their fray.

06-03-2003, 03:19 PM	#4
Optional Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 1,049	I am constantly amazed by the way conservative republicans can do and believe and be one thing while at the same time labeling it as something completely other. Liberals are mean??? One of the local conservative AM radio hacks around here had that line too and it simply baffles me. How could anyone possibly listen to Rush, WannabeRush Hannity, NotEnoughClassToBeRush Savage, et al and come up with the strange idea that liberals are mean??? No, really, I'm asking here, how can anybody possibly actually believe that? As for the administration doing something right, the previous poster nailed it... There has been precisely one successful terrorist attack on american soil by foreigners in the past century or so. The fact that it is seen as something of an achievement that we've gone two whole years without another one is one of the most damning things I can think of about bushlite and crew. -me

06-03-2003, 03:28 PM	#5
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	I wonder how much she was paid to write this twaddle. She ought to look at the sort of anti-liberal vituperation that many right-wingers seem to enjoy spouting; you get the impression from them that liberals are traitorious, lying, bigoted mad dogs and wreckers and enemies of the American people. Yes, Ann Coulter often seems rather Stalinist. Also, right-wingers' claiming to support "liberal" goals is pure posturing -- it's intended to get people on their side and only that. It's a sort of Machiavellianism that the Left is not very good at. And I think that many right-wingers engage in projection -- projecting their embarrassing features onto "liberals" / "the left". Thus, they often sound exactly like what they accuse liberals of being.

06-03-2003, 04:13 PM	#7
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	I'm so pissed. I came from blue colar and believe in labor unions. Have all ways believed in the constitution. Fact is I took an oath to defend it and was front line combat during tet. What in the fuck does this Rush boo boo Butt and the rest of these chickenhawk soulless sliver spoon fed bastards think gives them the right to tell me what Patriotism is? I wanta run amuck in their little world. (with a K-bar) Martin Buber

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