Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jolimont · 03-25-2003, 05:51 PM

Forgive the phonetic spelling, I've never tried to write this before. But I've certainly heard it a lot in the context of the Algerian war between French colonists and Algerians in the early 60s. Fedayins were what I'd now call gorilla fighters: badly armed but ruthless. They stopped at nothing to frighten the enemy and it worked. This word being used makes me think the invasion of Iraq will not go easy and that either the media will censor lots of images or the American people will recoil in horror. The troops are going to need all the prayers that have been uttered in their behalf.

Zar · 03-25-2003, 06:13 PM

We can see the censoring already as the television news media is starting to declare "known" Iraqi casualties with definite numerical ranges, while "coalition" casualties are "unknown" or "undetermined." I heard this on MSNBC re: some fighting around An Nasiryiah. It is curious that one can know so well the enemy's casualties but not know one's own.

Krieger · 03-25-2003, 06:46 PM

Here is a great news article.

Happy Wonderer · 03-25-2003, 07:04 PM

Very interesting site -- it looks pretty detailed, do you know any more about the provenance of it?

It sounds like the supply problems that I fear are happening, as allied tanks are running out of fuel. Damn Abrams have limited range and can't operate on their own for many days. "Iraqi armor" doesn't sound like a bunch of "dead enders" harassing the rearguard.

On the plus side, we seem to be able to do some close air support during the sandstorm.

This is scary, since it is most likely to be true:

Quote:

Work is paralyzed at the coalition press-center in Kuwait. Journalists are not able to get any information except for the hourly press communique from the command. A variety of reasons are cited by the military to reduce the number of trips into the combat zone for the journalists. All reports coming from the journalists attached to the coalition units are now being strictly censored by the military. All live broadcasts, as those seen during the first day of the war, are now strictly prohibited by a special order from the coalition command. The required time delay between the time news video footage was shot and the time it can be broadcast has been increased to a minimum of 4 hours.

Means we are not doing as well as we had hoped. I always thought that the fancy press center was bad luck...

HW

spurly · 03-25-2003, 07:07 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Happy Wonderer
Very interesting site -- it looks pretty detailed, do you know any more about the provenance of it?

It sounds like the supply problems that I fear are happening, as allied tanks are running out of fuel. Damn Abrams have limited range and can't operate on their own for many days. "Iraqi armor" doesn't sound like a bunch of "dead enders" harassing the rearguard.

And this is scary, since it is most likely to be true:

Quote:

Work is paralyzed at the coalition press-center in Kuwait. Journalists are not able to get any information except for the hourly press communique from the command. A variety of reasons are cited by the military to reduce the number of trips into the combat zone for the journalists. All reports coming from the journalists attached to the coalition units are now being strictly censored by the military. All live broadcasts, as those seen during the first day of the war, are now strictly prohibited by a special order from the coalition command. The required time delay between the time news video footage was shot and the time it can be broadcast has been increased to a minimum of 4 hours.

Four hours is not much time. And this time gap might help the reporters get their stories straight before they report them.

Kevin

Happy Wonderer · 03-25-2003, 07:13 PM

The four hour delay is for live video footage. Although I can certainly imagine operational reasons for it, certainly those reasons would have been thought of beforehand. This isn't the parade into Baghdad that we thought.

Today's announcement of the 100-300 Iraqi deaths (with no reports on the coalition casualties other than an admission that we have lost -- ie had blown up -- some vehicles) is eerie to someone who grew up when Vietnam was active. Usually announcements of large V.C. deaths were a way of preparing us for the announcement of large US casualties. (And after the war we discovered that the V.C. figures were made up...)

HW

Krieger · 03-25-2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Happy Wonderer
Very interesting site -- it looks pretty detailed, do you know any more about the provenance of it?

HW

Apparently most of the information is coming from intercepted coalition radio.

lpetrich · 03-25-2003, 08:04 PM

Also check out http://iraqwar.ru -- if you can read Russian. And this site purports to be translations of reports of the GRU -- the Russian military-intelligence agency.

Happy Wonderer · 03-25-2003, 08:11 PM

Man, you would think we would be using scrambled VHF communications. One report talks about our plans two days from now and the element of surprise that we hope to have.

HW

Happy Wonderer · 03-25-2003, 08:43 PM

I'm not too sure about this site, it talks about intercepting 1 watt VHF (scrambled and frequency hopping) sets. To intercept a 1 watt set you would have to be within a mile (usually.) That could just be a misunderstanding or mistranslation. However, there are also quotes from conversations between Blair and Bush which would be on a very secure hard line (unless somebody reported them, which I think would be a fairly strongly punishable act in wartime.)

I couldn't find anything much on the internet about the supposed frequency-hopping descrambler that they were using. I think the technology is possible, but it would take more than a day to get interesting intercepts decoded. There would be a huge volume of "where should I put the spare tires?" intercepts to decrypt and wade through.

HW

Of course Russian intelligence is probably capable of it (US sure is) however I don't think they would go posting their ability onto a website. They might need that capability soon the way things are going with the burning Bush that is igniting world hatred against the US...

03-25-2003, 05:51 PM	#1
Jolimont Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: USA expat, now living in France Posts: 1,153	"fedayin" is a word I hadn't heard in a long time Forgive the phonetic spelling, I've never tried to write this before. But I've certainly heard it a lot in the context of the Algerian war between French colonists and Algerians in the early 60s. Fedayins were what I'd now call gorilla fighters: badly armed but ruthless. They stopped at nothing to frighten the enemy and it worked. This word being used makes me think the invasion of Iraq will not go easy and that either the media will censor lots of images or the American people will recoil in horror. The troops are going to need all the prayers that have been uttered in their behalf.

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03-25-2003, 06:13 PM	#2
Zar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Chicago, IL USA Posts: 3,477	We can see the censoring already as the television news media is starting to declare "known" Iraqi casualties with definite numerical ranges, while "coalition" casualties are "unknown" or "undetermined." I heard this on MSNBC re: some fighting around An Nasiryiah. It is curious that one can know so well the enemy's casualties but not know one's own.

03-25-2003, 06:46 PM	#3
Krieger Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: ... Posts: 2,191	Here is a great news article.

03-25-2003, 07:13 PM	#6
Happy Wonderer Veteran Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington, the least religious state Posts: 5,334	The four hour delay is for live video footage. Although I can certainly imagine operational reasons for it, certainly those reasons would have been thought of beforehand. This isn't the parade into Baghdad that we thought. Today's announcement of the 100-300 Iraqi deaths (with no reports on the coalition casualties other than an admission that we have lost -- ie had blown up -- some vehicles) is eerie to someone who grew up when Vietnam was active. Usually announcements of large V.C. deaths were a way of preparing us for the announcement of large US casualties. (And after the war we discovered that the V.C. figures were made up...) HW

03-25-2003, 08:04 PM	#8
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Also check out http://iraqwar.ru -- if you can read Russian. And this site purports to be translations of reports of the GRU -- the Russian military-intelligence agency.

03-25-2003, 08:11 PM	#9
Happy Wonderer Veteran Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington, the least religious state Posts: 5,334	Man, you would think we would be using scrambled VHF communications. One report talks about our plans two days from now and the element of surprise that we hope to have. HW

03-25-2003, 08:43 PM	#10
Happy Wonderer Veteran Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington, the least religious state Posts: 5,334	I'm not too sure about this site, it talks about intercepting 1 watt VHF (scrambled and frequency hopping) sets. To intercept a 1 watt set you would have to be within a mile (usually.) That could just be a misunderstanding or mistranslation. However, there are also quotes from conversations between Blair and Bush which would be on a very secure hard line (unless somebody reported them, which I think would be a fairly strongly punishable act in wartime.) I couldn't find anything much on the internet about the supposed frequency-hopping descrambler that they were using. I think the technology is possible, but it would take more than a day to get interesting intercepts decoded. There would be a huge volume of "where should I put the spare tires?" intercepts to decrypt and wade through. HW Of course Russian intelligence is probably capable of it (US sure is) however I don't think they would go posting their ability onto a website. They might need that capability soon the way things are going with the burning Bush that is igniting world hatred against the US...

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