Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tercel · 03-13-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
As for my assertion that any floods that did happen were not the floods that the Noah's Ark story was based on: Well, none of the floods were sooo bad that Noah would have been unable to find land for over 150 days. Even his bird couldn�t find dry land. And for example, the Black Sea flooded at one time, but not so badly that the tops of the Ararat mountains were covered in water.

Okay, so you were simply criticising the fundamentalist viewpoint: Some for example would suggest that the Noah's Ark story really is based on an actual flood but just exaggerated a bit.

Quote:

And about the TV show being right, maybe it was. Those men know more than you and I.

Maybe. TV "experts" are not necessarily the real thing.

Quote:

They personally viewed the top of Mt. Ararat by satellite, and determined that the image that looked like it could be a boat, was probably the result of rocks and shadows.

"by satellite"?!? "probably"!?!
Sounds like rather dubious quality research to me...

Quote:

Also, a believer that tried to go up and see the �Ark� himself, fell down and died, and no one else is allowed to go up there. So if it IS there, your God doesn�t want us to see it.

Actually, Satan's afraid of anyone finding the ark, it was him that killed the person...

Quote:

He doesn�t want to give us any proof or good reason to believe. So that�s also why he gave us a really confusing Bible.

I don't think God's too worried about what we believe, and we wrote the Bible.

Marduk · 03-13-2003, 03:31 PM

�Maybe. TV "experts" are not necessarily the real thing.�

Tercel is correct here, I�ve seen many shows like this with so called �experts�. I�ve seen them present Zechariah Sitchin as a �Biblical Scholar� he is a Biblical Scholar only because he says he is. His actual degree is in The History of Economics and he was a newspaper editor. Other �experts� are often identified as Joe Blow �author�. Anyone can be an author. If they don�t identify the speaker by his degree of expertise and the University he is associated with, I take what the say with a grain of salt.
BTW the ancient document being refereed to is �The Epic of Gilgamesh�.

Carrie · 03-13-2003, 06:56 PM

Blah blah blah.

Tercel, of course I'm refuting the fundamentalist idea of the flood. If it was a real flood that was just exaggerated, then I can say that all the stories in the Bible were real but exaggerated! Like, Jesus was a real dude, but the story was exaggerated, so people said he rose from the dead.

If you don't want me to read the Bible the way it really reads, then that's fine. I could then believe it, yet believe it according to what I want it to mean. I can say one story was exaggerated, but another one was not. You can't know which ones were and which ones were not exaggerated.

Your defenses are highly unlikely and ridiculous. Like God would say, "Moses, write down that old story about the flood that you heard about." That pretty much kills the power of the story. That's stupid.

If someone on this forum has stupid arguments, it's really obvious, and we'll tell you. There are other Christians on this forum who usually have intelligent comebacks or comments, but so far, I have not seen any good feedback from you - or Old Man, or Magus, for that matter.

Come back with something of substance for once.

And as for the "experts" on the TV show. Whether they are "real" or not does matter to me, nor does it matter if the show was one sided. You know why? Because we've had
Christianity shoved down our throats for 2000 years, by "experts" who all disagree, and are very one sided! So it's about time to hear another point of view god damn it!

Carrie · 03-13-2003, 07:04 PM

Marduk,

The show DID identify the speakers by their degrees of expertise, and the universities they are associated with. So their comments are not to be taken with a grain of salt, but are to be seriously considered. Excuse me for not taking notes while I watched TV.

Vinnie · 03-13-2003, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Actually, Satan's afraid of anyone finding the ark, it was him that killed the person...

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Vinnie

Vinnie · 03-13-2003, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Some for example would suggest that the Noah's Ark story really is based on an actual flood but just exaggerated a bit.

A local flood of course...

Vinnie

Kosh · 03-13-2003, 08:10 PM

Carrie, something to keep in mind. Tercel is a very liberal Xian from New Zealand, who has never been to the U.S., and really doesn't understand the Fundy position or why we spend so much time battling it.

Soul Invictus · 03-13-2003, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ab_Normal
I'm shocked and amazed that there was a show on TLC that actually took a critical stance toward the Bible. And I missed it!

The History Channel has a critical stance on the formation of the Bible. It would be hard for a hardcore Christian fundy to watch it w/o getting mad I'm sure, however it's very informative, if you can catch it.

Vinnie · 03-13-2003, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kosh
Carrie, something to keep in mind. Tercel is a very liberal Xian from New Zealand, who has never been to the U.S., and really doesn't understand the Fundy position or why we spend so much time battling it.

I am from the us and I was stunned when I first heard of young earth creationism. Some people on a message board were asking about the age of the earth and I chimed in with 4.6 bya and a can of worms was opened. That was my first visit to drdino.com :-D

I had difficulty believing these people were for real at first

Vinnie

Kosh · 03-13-2003, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vinnie
I am from the us and I was stunned when I first heard of young earth creationism. Some people on a message board were asking about the age of the earth and I chimed in with 4.6 bya and a can of worms was opened. That was my first visit to drdino.com :-D

I had difficulty believing these people were for real at first

Vinnie

Come to the dark side Vinnie! YOu know you're almost here! Hey, let me take to you Sturgis this year, once you've been flashed, you'll see the light of heathen fun...Biker Angel

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03-13-2003, 03:31 PM	#12
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	�Maybe. TV "experts" are not necessarily the real thing.� Tercel is correct here, I�ve seen many shows like this with so called �experts�. I�ve seen them present Zechariah Sitchin as a �Biblical Scholar� he is a Biblical Scholar only because he says he is. His actual degree is in The History of Economics and he was a newspaper editor. Other �experts� are often identified as Joe Blow �author�. Anyone can be an author. If they don�t identify the speaker by his degree of expertise and the University he is associated with, I take what the say with a grain of salt. BTW the ancient document being refereed to is �The Epic of Gilgamesh�.

03-13-2003, 06:56 PM	#13
Carrie Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 424	Blah blah blah. Tercel, of course I'm refuting the fundamentalist idea of the flood. If it was a real flood that was just exaggerated, then I can say that all the stories in the Bible were real but exaggerated! Like, Jesus was a real dude, but the story was exaggerated, so people said he rose from the dead. If you don't want me to read the Bible the way it really reads, then that's fine. I could then believe it, yet believe it according to what I want it to mean. I can say one story was exaggerated, but another one was not. You can't know which ones were and which ones were not exaggerated. Your defenses are highly unlikely and ridiculous. Like God would say, "Moses, write down that old story about the flood that you heard about." That pretty much kills the power of the story. That's stupid. If someone on this forum has stupid arguments, it's really obvious, and we'll tell you. There are other Christians on this forum who usually have intelligent comebacks or comments, but so far, I have not seen any good feedback from you - or Old Man, or Magus, for that matter. Come back with something of substance for once. And as for the "experts" on the TV show. Whether they are "real" or not does matter to me, nor does it matter if the show was one sided. You know why? Because we've had Christianity shoved down our throats for 2000 years, by "experts" who all disagree, and are very one sided! So it's about time to hear another point of view god damn it!

03-13-2003, 07:04 PM	#14
Carrie Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 424	Marduk, The show DID identify the speakers by their degrees of expertise, and the universities they are associated with. So their comments are not to be taken with a grain of salt, but are to be seriously considered. Excuse me for not taking notes while I watched TV.

03-13-2003, 08:10 PM	#17
Kosh Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orions Belt Posts: 3,911	Carrie, something to keep in mind. Tercel is a very liberal Xian from New Zealand, who has never been to the U.S., and really doesn't understand the Fundy position or why we spend so much time battling it.

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