Thor Q. Mada

Fastfalcon,

Maybe where you live, CNN has only just recently been introduce, and therefore from that perpective the signs of the second coming are there.
However, these signs have always been amongst us since recorded history. Maybe you should read afew history books and look a bit further than the bible.
And by the way, has it never occured to you that gods don't write books??
Books are man-made being it the koran or the bible or das capital or mein kampf.
They had a purpose (usually control) when they were written. They are then subsequently overtaken by the events. Sticking to them is a waste of time.
Use your energy to do something usefull, allthough in Bermuda, playing golf is probably the only possibility.

NOGO

You need to distinguish between evidence (input) and conclusion (output).

Mt24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

The input says that the Son (Jesus) does not know the day and hour of his return.

That is what the source says. If we cannot even agree on this then there is no debate possible.

Your contention is that Jesus did not have any knowledge about the time of his return. This is your conclusion for which you need to provide evidence.

Wrong. These verses, like Mt24:36, say that the day and hour were not known.

You have not shown any evidence for your conclusion.

NOGO

Please tell me which verses of Jesus' answer belong to which question.

This is quite fundamental to understanding Mt24

Fastfalcon

Tell us, when shall these things be?
Answer: Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

What shall be the sign of thy coming?
Answer: 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

and of the end of the world?
Answer: 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 24:12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 24:28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Fastfalcon ]</p>

NOGO

Hi Fastfalcon,

Please read my post on page 3.

"tell us when shall these things be" is refering to a statement made earlier by Jesus about the destruction of the temple. Looking at Luke who tells the same story one can see which verse refer to the destruction of the temple.

By the way, I doubt that Aza wood would agree weith you.

If you review the first question I will then be able to give you a complete answer on the rest.

Take care.

NOGO

To settle this issue just look at Luke's version of the same story.

Comapre with

Notice the bold text.
"It" is the "Kingdom of God".

You said the following

"Mat. 24:23 "It" could refer to the destruction, that he was asked about, but ¸can not refer to his coming, as He states in verses 36,(and more below) that he did not know the time of his return."

Checkmate.

[ June 03, 2002: Message edited by: NOGO ]</p>

enemigo

I know this is probably overkill by now, but lets not forget Mark 9:1

richard

NOGO

Hi Richard,

Thanks. I don't think that it is overkill however I just an arguement about Mark 9:1 and did not want to repeat it. Some people claim that the disciples in question saw the Kingdom of God a week later at the so called trasfiguration. I don't buy it.