Freethought & Rationalism Archive

CALDONIA · 04-05-2003, 02:28 PM

It is such a warm and happy thought that the cancers, earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, and mosquitoes we endure are a good thing, actually, since they "remind" us that we are sinners!

We should pray for MORE natural calamities and halt all medical research and care so that no one will fail to be reminded.

Thomas Metcalf · 04-05-2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by betzerdg :

Quote:

Jumping off a cliff results in hitting bottom.

Sometimes jumping itself is quite pleasant.

So, should a loving G-d negate the laws of gravity to accommodate the cliff jumpers.

No. Our position is that God should prevent more needless suffering than he does already. Such is the motivation behind every argument from evil, so it's unclear how you could have misinterpreted them so egregiously. There exist some instances of suffering that genuinely seem to be needless.

Quote:

We (as a mankind thing) chose to jump from the perfect...

What does it mean to choose something "as a mankind [sic] thing"? Does this happen much these days? Most people don't live in the United States. Does that mean I chose (as a mankind thing) not to live in the United States?

I don't think you'll find any sympathy for the idea that I can occurrently choose for P to obtain but latently (or "as a mankind thing") choose for ~P to obtain. It's pretty obvious that I don't want there to be widespread, intense, apparently gratuitous suffering and premature death in the world. I mean, I obviously have introspective epistemic access to my own beliefs, so I'm having a hard time figuring out how it could be the case that I could have a belief without knowing it. Either that, or I didn't choose for all this suffering to exist, in which case your theodicy fails totally.

Quote:

Suffering reminds us that there are laws to follow.

Any theodicy must demonstrate how it's logically or metaphysically impossible for some good to exist (such as "humans are reminded that there are laws to follow") without suffering, but this theodicy certainly cannot. God could remind us without using suffering, if he's truly omnipotent. The same goes for bringing us back to our senses. You must have a pretty dim view of how powerful God is.

Oh, and one more thing: We were never perfect. Perfect beings are incorruptible. So God must have created us as imperfect beings.

Angrillori · 04-05-2003, 08:55 PM

Lets apply analogy to analogy:

To remind people of U.S. Laws, lets put random innocent people in prison.

To remind people there's a law against murder that results in the death penalty, lets find some children and sit 'em in the electric chair.

This'll surely remind everyone that there're laws to be followed and consequences to not following them right?

Plus, don't they even see how odd it is to say:

Innocent children suffer to remind us that when we suffer it's from god.

Ches · 04-05-2003, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Suffering reminds us that there are laws to follow.
Suffering reminds us that we have broken those laws.
Suffering reminds us that we are imperfect in an imperfect world and along with all of creation we long for the restoration of that which is perfect.
]

Or better yet

Suffering Reminds us that there are no laws to follow that can stop suffering

Suffering reminds us that even if we dont break the laws we can still suffer.

Suffering reminds us that people think we are imperfect and attempt to justify our suffering to make themselves feel better.

As for me I love nothing that does not love me enoff to prove that it's real.

winstonjen · 04-06-2003, 03:09 AM

29 spam points to 3. Carr, I think you speak a lot more sense than your 'competition.'

Jamie_L · 04-07-2003, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by betzerdg
WE OURSELVES created suffering.....but it is now G-d who uses it to bring us back to our senses.

God created us. God created the environment we placed us in. All things flow from God.

If God wanted us not to create suffering, there wouldn't be suffering.

After we created suffering, if God wanted it to go away, it would go away.

Anything God wants us to know, he can have us know. He does not need suffering, or anything else to teach us.

All things are possible with God. Supposedly.

Jamie

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas · 04-07-2003, 10:07 AM

Dr. Retard,

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Retard
Riiiight, because children choose to be born with Tay-Sachs Disease.

It seems like you've misread your Bible.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas · 04-07-2003, 10:10 AM

Steven,

Quote:

Originally posted by Steven Carr
But , if to get my freedom, some children have to have Tay-Sachs disease , then so be it. It is a price worth paying.....

I think you've made the same error Dr. Retard has on this.

You might want to reread your Bible.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Ab_Normal · 04-07-2003, 10:15 AM

SOMMS, would you care to clarify which bits of the Bible we all seem to have missed? Thanks.

Clutch · 04-07-2003, 11:06 AM

This thread is finished... because it's safer not to think about these things.

You do not know your bibles... honest, there's stuff in there that makes sense of it all -- I'd tell you what it is, but hey, look at the time! Gotta go.

SOMMS can see it; why can't the rest of you?

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04-05-2003, 02:28 PM	#11
CALDONIA Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunnyvale,CA Posts: 371	It is such a warm and happy thought that the cancers, earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, and mosquitoes we endure are a good thing, actually, since they "remind" us that we are sinners! We should pray for MORE natural calamities and halt all medical research and care so that no one will fail to be reminded.

04-05-2003, 08:55 PM	#13
Angrillori Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: A world less bright without WinAce. Posts: 7,482	Lets apply analogy to analogy: To remind people of U.S. Laws, lets put random innocent people in prison. To remind people there's a law against murder that results in the death penalty, lets find some children and sit 'em in the electric chair. This'll surely remind everyone that there're laws to be followed and consequences to not following them right? Plus, don't they even see how odd it is to say: Innocent children suffer to remind us that when we suffer it's from god.

04-06-2003, 03:09 AM	#15
winstonjen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,425	29 spam points to 3. Carr, I think you speak a lot more sense than your 'competition.'

04-07-2003, 10:15 AM	#19
Ab_Normal Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,842	SOMMS, would you care to clarify which bits of the Bible we all seem to have missed? Thanks.

04-07-2003, 11:06 AM	#20
Clutch Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 3,751	This thread is finished... because it's safer not to think about these things. You do not know your bibles... honest, there's stuff in there that makes sense of it all -- I'd tell you what it is, but hey, look at the time! Gotta go. SOMMS can see it; why can't the rest of you?

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