Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vorkosigan · 10-22-2002, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WalrusGumBoot:
I realize that this is a tough pill to swallow to those who believe Jesus was a mythical character, but the question becomes then, What will it take to "prove" that Jesus of the bible actually existed? I think we all need to come to grips with the fact that he was a real person. From that point, it is up to your discretion who he actually was.

Walrus, the position you outline is a rather naive take on mythicism. Nobody here rejects completely the existence of some human who stimulated or inspired the NT tales. Rather, we mythicists tend to think that gospels are almost entirely fiction and tell us nothing about the historical human being under them. Stop arguing against strawmen.

Amen-Moses · 10-23-2002, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Layman:


What is your source for this?

Probably geology, you know the study of rocks n stuff.

The nearest you can possibly pin down a rock geographically speaking would be to an area the size of England. Unless the Limestone outcrop in Jerusalem is a tiny remnant and the rest has been eroded away it is just as likely that the stone could have been quarried anywhere within a hundred mile circle or so.

Anyhow even if the rock was quarried in Jerusalem it doesn't follow that it was actually used there, it could have been exported to outlying regions (very likely if indeed the outcrop is localised to Jerusalem).

Amen-Moses

FunkyRes · 10-23-2002, 03:21 AM

Quote:

The nearest you can possibly pin down a rock geographically speaking would be to an area the size of England.

That's a pretty broad statement and probably not true- at least not in all cases.

Care to reference it?

Steven Carr · 10-23-2002, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eudaimonist:
It's too bad that the inscription doesn't give any additional reason to think it refers to a man-believed-divine other than the teasing combination of family relationships and all-too-common names. It invites too much wishful thinking.

What if an inscription were to be found that said:

Jesus, son of Joseph and Mary

Would that be evidence that Jesus of Nazareth had died and stayed dead? It's all so annoyingly speculative and emotion-begging.

Such an ossuary was indeed found.

Steven Carr · 10-23-2002, 03:47 AM

[ October 23, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Carr ]

Steven Carr · 10-23-2002, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steven Carr:


But they did find a box with Jesus, Joseph and Mary on it. Is that close enough?

IN <a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/8t4/8t4051.html" target="_blank">http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/8t4/8t4051.html</a> Tom Wright dismissed this withe the comment 'Why is there no mention of James, Jesus' most famous brother, or of Joses and Simon (as listed in Mark 6:3, along with some unnamed sisters)?'

But Lemaire claims 'Moreover, naming the brother as well as the father on an ossuary was "very unusual," Lemaire says.'

So Wright's objection fails. It was unusual to list the brothers and sisters.

So now we have solid archaeological proof that Jesus was not crucified and went on to have a son.

Unless all these names were so common, that the whole thing means nothing.

Amen-Moses · 10-23-2002, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FunkyRes:


That's a pretty broad statement and probably not true- at least not in all cases.

Care to reference it?

My Geology degree.

I did go on to say unless it was the last remaining part of an eroded outcrop but my cursory knowledge of the areas Geology (sorry I cannot find any geology maps online) says otherwise.

Amen-Moses

[ October 23, 2002: Message edited by: Amen-Moses ]

Jayhawker Soule · 10-23-2002, 04:42 AM

For those who missed the PBS interview: <a href="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/religion/july-dec02/jesus_10-22.html" target="_blank">LINK TO JESUS?</a>

Babylon Sister · 10-23-2002, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by WalrusGumboot:

Quote:

The arguments going on here are unbelievable! An empty tomb of a Pharoah is unearthed, and nobody doubts that this Pharoah existed. Some inscriptions are carved in a stone, and it makes the the history books as fact. However, when the subject of Jesus of the bible finally has evidence (outside of the NT) that he actually existed, then suddenly archaeological evidence has somehow been "tampered" with.

A tomb is an archeological feature with integrety and provenience, two criteria necessary to establish (archeological) authenticity.

No archeologist worth their salt would accept the ossuary as genuine with the limited information currently available.

Jayhawker Soule · 10-23-2002, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steven Carr:
Such an ossuary was indeed found.

Steven, is the reference in this thread?

10-23-2002, 03:47 AM	#185
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	[ October 23, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Carr ]</p>

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10-23-2002, 04:42 AM	#188
Jayhawker Soule Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,777	For those who missed the PBS interview: <a href="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/religion/july-dec02/jesus_10-22.html" target="_blank">LINK TO JESUS?</a>

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