Aerion

Yes, I do believe that genetic can predispose certain personality traits including those I mentioned above. Considering the years of experience humanity has with genetics and animal husbandry, are you seriously expecting people to believe this isn't true?


Except for the homogenous society, I agree with the rest of this.



Hmm... While all of this is true, I still wonder if it fully explains the stagnation of technological development of African cultures. The Native Americans had all this pristine American land yet their culture stagnated into hunter-gatherer or early agrarian cultures. So America's bounty does not fully explain its greatness. Your native Australia had an aboriginal culture stagnated when it was founded as a penal colony and colonized by white Europeans.
In both cases, white Europeans moved in and really developed the place. If you look at the cultures of Africa and South America, it seems that tropical climates seem to breed the most primative cultures. Interesting stuff to ponder.

Gurdur

So you've calmed down, and you actually answer my question.
All to the good !

Your claim is essentially that the population of the USA has been influenced on a large scale by genes for industriousness etc.

And it's crap.

Your strawman example with animal husbandry simply ignores the very tight breeding conditions of that; moreover, you have absolutely no scientific proof for your claim, none, zero. Just rhetoric and false analogies.

Furthermore, your claim rests upon a whole horde of dubious premises. You must be assuming that immigrants were more genetically motivated than those left behind; again, nonsense.

The effects of economic desperation, of reaction to persecution etc, need no genetic explanations whatsoever --- and varied widely from region to small region.

Furthermore, by your claim, then the population of the USA should be showing a measurable difference in "industriousness" etc. compared to other older populations.
And you fail, miserably.
The per capita GNP of all Western countries is much in the same bracket, the only differences being non-significant and rather economic-history/climate--caused. Significant differences in scholastic achievements also do not exist between the Western countries.
All contrary to the consequences of your claim.

My word, Aerion, where do you dream this stuff up ?

BTW, you obviously know very little about Russia if you claim that that is homogenous. But hey, just a small point.

Loren Pechtel

It's also going to cause long-term troubles for Zimbabwe. Due to a massive epidemic back around 1900, Zimbabwe was free of the Teesee fly. Thus western livestock could live there. This was maintained by a 10 mile wide buffer zone with fences on both sides and patrolled by the army--shoot any animal on sight. While the fences themselves weren't enough to stop big animals from crashing through the army was able to stop them before both barriers were crashed. Since the max flying range of the fly is only 300 yards this was enough to keep it out. When the white government fell the new government wasn't diligent about the barrier--it was breached. No more western livestock there.

Gurdur

I'll also add that any such crap claim that somehow "primitive cultures" are genetically caused wholesale ignores the development of mathematics both in ancient India and in the early mediaeval Arab Middle East and Persia; ignores the Pyramids, built when Europeans were still squabbling over how best to build a mud hut; ignores the universities of North Africa, which far predated the European universities; oh, and also ignores the effects of long-term parasites and diseases in tropical countries.

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by Gurdur
Do you really believe what you've just written ?

You seriously think there's some kind of genetic difference to being "hardworking, industrious and adeventurous" ?

I don't know about him, but I don't think so. There *IS* however a cultural pattern.

Nonsense. The rise to might of the USA is very simple to explain --- a huge amount of (stolen) land, most of it neo-European in climate, lots of good agricultural land and water, homogenous society, easy trade routes.

These arguments do not explain why Europe has done well.

Tsetse fly.

Thanks for fixing the spelling.

But you've left out the real killers ---- yellow fever, riverworm, bilharzia (shistomanisitis), and above all malaria. Most of these affect livestock as well as humans.

Malaria is a killer through many other areas also. Washington D.C. used to be a malarial swamp. I don't know the original areas of the other diseases you list.

There's also the question of sheer geography and climate, which made easy trade routes within Africa an impossibility till recently.
Also, lack of much good agricultural land and water.

It's not just Africa that's behind, though.

A gross over-simplification --- it's history, bad luck, climate, disease (malaria is still the no. 1 killer after HIV), and some governments.

We used to have malaria, also. We wiped it out. Also, when you are in malaria territory the drugs are over the counter and quite cheap. I will admit the cheap stuff doesn't have sugar coating but if you swallow quickly with plenty of water it's not that bad. (For those of you who haven't experienced it, chloroquin is the vilest tasting thing I've ever encountered. You pick up some of the taste of the tablet in taking it.)

Loren Pechtel

Interesting!

I hadn't thought of that before but you're right--that could easily explain why we are #1. It doesn't explain why Europe is ahead, though.

Loren Pechtel

Disease--they have more of it. That does not explain why Europe was ahead of Asia, though.

August Spies

yeah elwoodblues is such a liberal,
anyway why not claim racism? the conclusions, if taken to their logical conclustion are clearly racist. But hey, why attack him for racism when his defender in this thread says "we also had a population built of hard working, industrious and adventurous immigrants from Europe. This gave the United States a boost in the gene pool. "

wow im glad we got european genes and not them brown folk!

August Spies

Elwood:
As Gudur points out we are very homogeneous in real ways. Yes, we may have a lot of different skin colors, but lets look at real differences. If we look at this country as it rose to power virtually everyone spoke english (though recently spanish has been growing somewhat). Virtually everyone is christian. The majority are white. etc..

August Spies

Boy Aerion where are you coming from?
Oh yeah... those Incans, Aztecs and Mayans were sooooo primative. (not to forget arab nations and indian civilization, all of which where ahead of the "west" at one time or another)