Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Queen of Swords · 02-08-2002, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spirit Branded:
Hell Mageth

Oh, I love that Freudian slip.

Spirit Branded · 02-08-2002, 02:55 PM

Hello Helen

I decline to answer your question.

That does not mean I do not wish you well.

Blessings and Peace

Spirit Branded

Spirit Branded · 02-08-2002, 02:57 PM

Hell Q of S

I love the way you lose no opportunity to snipe.

Blessings and Peace

Spirit Branded

HelenM · 02-08-2002, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spirit Branded:
Hello Helen

I decline to answer your question.

That does not mean I do not wish you well.

Blessings and Peace

Spirit Branded

Nevertheless, I appreciate you responding to my question SB

I do try to be appreciative, believe it or not

I wish rw the best; I do believe his spirituality is in the hands of God

love
Helen

Mageth · 02-08-2002, 03:02 PM

I need to know who created value and why? When I know the creator's motive I will more willingly accept that creator's purpose for me.

Can't a "value" have, um, value in and of itself? I prefer my value system that way - I don't want a value system based on someone else's ulterior motives.

Since Christ was at the beginning of all things it would not surprise me to find traces of his ideas in other perceptions of God. Why should that surprise you or me?

I presuppose -nothing- at the beginning of all things. Most "values" broadly held by society were worked out over thousands, if not millions, of years of human existence, and are beneficial in that they contribute to a smooth-running society that provides at least some happiness and satisfaction to the greatest number of people. For example, the golden rule, the "greatest" teaching of jesus to some, was most certainly not new, or unique, in Jesus's teaching.

Why should Jesus teaching such values, that were developed in human society before him, and were not new or unique to his teaching, surprise you or me? If he taught contra to widely-accepted values, who would have listened to him? (OK, some would obviously, just like some listen to Bin Laden).

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]

Jack the Bodiless · 02-08-2002, 03:02 PM

Quote:

6. Eternal life

This is perhaps the most curious of these invented "things RW is giving up".

If WE are right, eternal life was never available anyhow.

On the other hand, if a genuinely benevolent deity does indeed exist, RW will go to Heaven, and all of us atheists will gladly join him there in due course.

RW is in no danger, unless it's the strictly BIBLICAL God who exists. And this is not possible: Biblical errors and contradictions rule him out. There is merely a slight possibility of a God who resembles the Biblical one to some extent.

To what extent, exactly? Well, each individual Christian gets to choose the attributes they prefer. They build their God in their own image. And their answers reveal a great deal about their individual personalities.

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Jack the Bodiless ]

Mageth · 02-08-2002, 03:09 PM

Mageth ... you need to check with your scientific friends about rainbows ... which are no more an illusion than my big toe.

I don't have to check with my scientific friends; I'm scientific enough to know the answer.

I was using, admittedly, a bit of colorful language. But check with your scientific friends; a rainbow is a construction of your mind and "exists" only there. There is no "rainbow" outside of your mind. Two observers at different points "see" entirely different rainbows. And a third observer situated in the wrong place (for example, on the opposite side of the rain "generating" the rainbow) will see nothing.

One definition of "illusion" is:

Illusion (n.) An unreal image presented to the bodily or mental vision.

So, in a sense, a rainbow is an illusion.

Edited to add: in fact, when "viewing" a rainbow, your left eye and right eye each "see" a different rainbow.

[ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]

Queen of Swords · 02-08-2002, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spirit Branded:
Hell Q of S

I love the way you lose no opportunity to snipe.

Why, thank you. I aim to please.

Myself, but it's nice if I make someone else happy too.

BLoggins02 · 02-08-2002, 03:51 PM

Quote:

I do not hate Christ

I suppose you are going to try to claim that unless I love Christians I hate Christ. *sigh*

It's probably because I have loved Christ, that I ended up so disappointed with Christians.

Helen:

Maybe I'm just a softie, but this one line almost brought a tear to my eye. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Vorkosigan · 02-08-2002, 04:16 PM

HelenSL annihilates Metacrock!

>SWAK< a big kiss for you, woman! May you prosper and grow in whatever it is you believe.

Michael

02-08-2002, 03:02 PM	#135
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I need to know who created value and why? When I know the creator's motive I will more willingly accept that creator's purpose for me. Can't a "value" have, um, value in and of itself? I prefer my value system that way - I don't want a value system based on someone else's ulterior motives. Since Christ was at the beginning of all things it would not surprise me to find traces of his ideas in other perceptions of God. Why should that surprise you or me? I presuppose -nothing- at the beginning of all things. Most "values" broadly held by society were worked out over thousands, if not millions, of years of human existence, and are beneficial in that they contribute to a smooth-running society that provides at least some happiness and satisfaction to the greatest number of people. For example, the golden rule, the "greatest" teaching of jesus to some, was most certainly not new, or unique, in Jesus's teaching. Why should Jesus teaching such values, that were developed in human society before him, and were not new or unique to his teaching, surprise you or me? If he taught contra to widely-accepted values, who would have listened to him? (OK, some would obviously, just like some listen to Bin Laden). [ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

02-08-2002, 03:09 PM	#137
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Mageth ... you need to check with your scientific friends about rainbows ... which are no more an illusion than my big toe. I don't have to check with my scientific friends; I'm scientific enough to know the answer. I was using, admittedly, a bit of colorful language. But check with your scientific friends; a rainbow is a construction of your mind and "exists" only there. There is no "rainbow" outside of your mind. Two observers at different points "see" entirely different rainbows. And a third observer situated in the wrong place (for example, on the opposite side of the rain "generating" the rainbow) will see nothing. One definition of "illusion" is: Illusion (n.) An unreal image presented to the bodily or mental vision. So, in a sense, a rainbow is an illusion. Edited to add: in fact, when "viewing" a rainbow, your left eye and right eye each "see" a different rainbow. [ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

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02-08-2002, 02:55 PM	#132
Spirit Branded Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 36	Hello Helen I decline to answer your question. That does not mean I do not wish you well. Blessings and Peace Spirit Branded

02-08-2002, 02:57 PM	#133
Spirit Branded Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 36	Hell Q of S I love the way you lose no opportunity to snipe. Blessings and Peace Spirit Branded

02-08-2002, 04:16 PM	#140
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	HelenSL annihilates Metacrock! >SWAK< a big kiss for you, woman! May you prosper and grow in whatever it is you believe. Michael

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