Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Oolon Colluphid · 09-09-2002, 01:42 AM

Yep, the nearest relative of the giraffe is the okapi:

Note the remarkably long neck... not to giraffe standard, but hardly a surprise in a related species. Note also that the okapi is found only in forests in Africa, so not a million miles from the places giraffes are found.

Their skulls also show something of a family resemblance:

Giraffe:

Okapi:

On a recent tour of my local zoo with my daughter, there was a bunch of tourists who were confused about what they were looking at. I told them �okapi�. There was much muttering amongst themselves -- they�d never heard of it -- and they decided, since it was in a paddock near the zebras, that it was a cross between a zebra and a giraffe. This was fine, since it does indeed look a bit like that... till further discussion relating to the zoo�s well-known breeding programmes revealed that they were serious. Only my 4-year-old�s tugginig at my arm and �come on Daddy, I want to see the meetkats� saved them (and me) from a brief lecture on species, perissodactyls and arteriodactyls...

My physiology textbook (Eckert, 5e) has several paragraphs on giraffe circulation and the problems of blood pressure differences of long necks (it notes that camels, for instance, face similar problems). Basically, the giraffe copes by vasodilation and constriction, and lots of connective tissue around blood vessels in the legs, which acts like surgical stockings to prevent pooling.

I also remember reading (though not in Eckert) that giraffes have a network of blood vessels near the brain which acts like a sponge to prevent rapid increases / decreases in brain blood pressure. Can anyone confirm?

Whatever, I see nothing in giraffes that couldn�t have evolved by small increments.

Hey, maybe some proto-giraffes did have exploding heads. Oddly enough, those ones left no descendants...

Cheers, Oolon

[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Oolon Colluphid ]</p>

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 09-09-2002, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secular Elation:
<strong>Anyone heard of this one?

Recently, a person I am familiar with made this argument, along these lines, against evolution:

Give me a break...like a giraffe's head is going to burst for moving it downward! Geez!

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Secular Elation ]</strong>

No wonder bad things happen in the world. God is spending his whole time making sure that giraffe's heads don't explode when they get a drink of water!

Peez · 09-10-2002, 01:16 PM

Evolution conflicts with giraffes. Notice how the head of the giraffe is located on top of a neck that rises several feel upward in vertical direction? What are the odds that the neck would evolve to be just the right height to reach its head?

Zeep

RufusAtticus · 09-10-2002, 01:45 PM

Works for me.

Down with Darwin and his evil aethist munions!

mustknow · 09-12-2002, 05:04 PM

Who ever thought of this arguement needs their head checked!

Dan828 · 09-12-2002, 08:38 PM

Some actually has this argument posted on a web site-- see the Giraffe and other <a href="http://informationcentre.tripod.com/evolve5.html" target="_blank">Fun Animals that Evolutionists Hate!</a>

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Dan828 ]</p>

Nickle · 09-12-2002, 08:56 PM

some good laughs there

Doubting Didymus · 09-12-2002, 09:29 PM

They spelt atheist wrong, for a start.

Bubba · 09-13-2002, 04:20 PM

Alas, nothing but a poorly presented irreducible complexity arguement on that page.

Chris

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09-09-2002, 01:42 AM	#21
Oolon Colluphid Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Alibi: ego ipse hinc extermino Posts: 12,591	Yep, the nearest relative of the giraffe is the okapi: Note the remarkably long neck... not to giraffe standard, but hardly a surprise in a related species. Note also that the okapi is found only in forests in Africa, so not a million miles from the places giraffes are found. Their skulls also show something of a family resemblance: Giraffe: Okapi: On a recent tour of my local zoo with my daughter, there was a bunch of tourists who were confused about what they were looking at. I told them �okapi�. There was much muttering amongst themselves -- they�d never heard of it -- and they decided, since it was in a paddock near the zebras, that it was a cross between a zebra and a giraffe. This was fine, since it does indeed look a bit like that... till further discussion relating to the zoo�s well-known breeding programmes revealed that they were serious. Only my 4-year-old�s tugginig at my arm and �come on Daddy, I want to see the meetkats� saved them (and me) from a brief lecture on species, perissodactyls and arteriodactyls... My physiology textbook (Eckert, 5e) has several paragraphs on giraffe circulation and the problems of blood pressure differences of long necks (it notes that camels, for instance, face similar problems). Basically, the giraffe copes by vasodilation and constriction, and lots of connective tissue around blood vessels in the legs, which acts like surgical stockings to prevent pooling. I also remember reading (though not in Eckert) that giraffes have a network of blood vessels near the brain which acts like a sponge to prevent rapid increases / decreases in brain blood pressure. Can anyone confirm? Whatever, I see nothing in giraffes that couldn�t have evolved by small increments. Hey, maybe some proto-giraffes did have exploding heads. Oddly enough, those ones left no descendants... Cheers, Oolon [ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Oolon Colluphid ]</p>

09-10-2002, 01:16 PM	#23
Peez Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 5,504	Evolution conflicts with giraffes. Notice how the head of the giraffe is located on top of a neck that rises several feel upward in vertical direction? What are the odds that the neck would evolve to be just the right height to reach its head? Zeep

09-10-2002, 01:45 PM	#24
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	Works for me. Down with Darwin and his evil aethist munions!

09-12-2002, 05:04 PM	#25
mustknow New Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 3	Who ever thought of this arguement needs their head checked!

09-12-2002, 08:38 PM	#26
Dan828 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Davis, CA USA Posts: 83	Some actually has this argument posted on a web site-- see the Giraffe and other <a href="http://informationcentre.tripod.com/evolve5.html" target="_blank">Fun Animals that Evolutionists Hate!</a> [ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Dan828 ]</p>

09-12-2002, 08:56 PM	#27
Nickle Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 385	some good laughs there

09-12-2002, 09:29 PM	#28
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	They spelt atheist wrong, for a start.

09-13-2002, 04:20 PM	#29
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	Alas, nothing but a poorly presented irreducible complexity arguement on that page. Chris

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