Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Tenek · 05-21-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazyfingers
Annabel Lee,

I liked your new complaint about you-know-who.

I continue to wonder what their requirements/qualifications are for Mods and Admins over there. I was shocked when they made LouisBooth a Mod and then even promoted him to Admin.

The guy appears to get off misrepresenting other people's posts. He is a wizard at misrepresentation and misdirection. Essentially he is a very good troll and nothing else. How do you suppose he got the job I wonder?

Maybe he accuses people of being "false" Christians if they disagree with him. Us vs. Them and all. Maybe something like:

Tenek: Hey crazyfingers, man, we gotta protect this place from the bad guys. Make me a mod and I can create a new and glorious future for II forumites everywhere!

Crazyfingers: What are you smoking and where can I get some?

Ok, maybe that doesn't work quite as well. But it might if you were a bit more vulnerable or something like that. You get the idea.

Gunnaheave · 05-21-2003, 07:12 PM

I was wondering what happened to all my oregano.

WinAce · 05-21-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tenek
Hell's Belle

Damn, I think you just one-upped Annabel's old custom title at CF that *I* suggested

Gunnaheave · 05-21-2003, 07:53 PM

Is it really Smilin's birthday? Happy birthday Smilin. (I'll send my condolances to the community in whch you were born. I'm sure they will get it all repaired some day.)

WinAce · 05-21-2003, 09:28 PM

Happy Birthday, Mr. Smile E.N.

seebs · 05-21-2003, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gunnaheave
Perhaps Seebs can correct me on this, but I seem to recall someone said once that they flag certain posters as troublemakers, and then the mods moniter them more closely. It seems to me that this may be why it seems to some like they are getting picked on. �because they are, essentially. This practice sometimes seems to become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Suddenly you get no slack, so you lash out, and then you're canned. I've seen it many times.

I don't know if this actually happens in any remotely formal way, but I suspect that mods tend to keep an eye out for known instigators, simply because the mods are so outnumbered.

seebs · 05-21-2003, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Annabel Lee
He may be real but I'm guessing he is a sock puppet for a regular member.
Do you notice how he seemed to know everyone? He knew just who to harrass?

He's been around for a while, I think. Like, since March... I think he may have just waited a while and then decided to attack the "heretics". What a charmer!

seebs · 05-21-2003, 10:19 PM

(posted this in suggestions/bugs/complaints on CF, but I'm not sure it'll last there.)

This is offered mostly as a mild critique of a pattern I've noticed in the way the board's rules are enforced, which leads to the potential success of a few simple tactics you can use to get someone banned, if that person is consistently inconvenient to your debate.

A few ground rules:
1. Lying isn't against the rules. Calling someone a liar is. Use this heavily; make whatever claims you want, reiterate them after they've been corrected, and just keep on hammering. Sooner or later, someone will accuse you of dishonesty. REPORT THAT POST! It's a flame. Remember, there's all sorts of intellectual dishonesty which are not ACTUALLY lies.
2. Be as aggravating as you can manage without actually flaming. Remember, there's no rule against inciting to flame; there's only a rule against *actually flaming*. Make derisive comments. If someone posts a long, detailed, reasoned reply to your points, don't waste time replying seriously; just send a joking and derisive response. You can be pretty condescending without "flaming", and of course, as long as you use smileys and laugh a lot, you're not flaming - you're joking around.
3. Remember to play to the audience. There are certain common traits the moderating staff will have, and they're human. That means they *will* be a little more sensitive to posts the content of which they disagree with, than they are to posts the content of which they agree with. If you couch it right, you can say that someone is going to Hell for disagreeing with you, and get smiles and nods from the all-too-human moderators. Play this up for all it's worth; it's a powerful tool.
4. As a corollary to 3., remember to play up ways in which your opponent doesn't agree with the staff. Arguing with a preterist? Be sure to bring it up, and maybe make a derisive remark. An angry response could well get your opponent out of your life, forever! The same goes double for pagans and atheists. Insult them, mock them, and make false claims about their beliefs; when they try to correct you, report them for promoting non-Christian religions. If they try to attack you, report them for attacking Christianity. You have a one-way force field here; use it!
5. Report everything you can. Never explain. Never give context. Make as much work for the moderators as you can; every minute they spend figuring out what on earth you're complaining about is a minute they don't have to read the whole context of another thread - and when they have to make decisions without enough context, their personal opinions will color their behavior.
6. (Advanced topics). Make sure you call attention to the fundamentally Christian nature of your position at all times. Attacking people? Just say it's a rebuke. Cruel? No, no, you're just trying to show tough love. If you're not sure, quote a Bible verse or three.
7. Remember, if you make an assertion over and over, any sane person will eventually either call you on this abusive behavior, or give up. If it's the latter, *you won*! Your point, being the last word, is obviously correct. If it's the former, REPORT THAT POST! You've been flamed, by being accused of bad debate tactics.
8. Misquote! There's no rule against taking something someone said out of context and replying to it. If someone says something sarcastic, thank them for agreeing with you. Remember, *errors* aren't against the rules, no matter how intentional - only flames.
9. Preface attacks with "I believe", or better yet, "the Bible says". It doesn't matter whether the Bible actually says it; you're just expressing your own opinion of what the Bible teaches, right? That's great! Do it up.
10. Cast your opponent as a troublemaker. The mods may make an extra effort to keep an eye on a troublemaker - that means that they have more time to spot your opponent's occasional flirtations with the boundaries of the rules, and *less* time to spot yours. And remember, people expect to see what you tell them is there...

Remember to always play with the gray areas. The staff are honest; they will enforce the rules as fairly as they can. The grey areas are where you can play up the fallibility of the human staff, and get their instincts to work against their committment to fairness.

It's an uphill battle, but given the advice in this guide, you should be able to get rid of anyone who is making you look bad. And remember, if anyone complains, just say it's vitally important that you save souls. Most people won't stop to ask you whether your tactics can possibly be a good way to do this; good intentions make up for a lot. But be wary of where that road leads...

And yes, this is meant somewhat as a sincere and considered criticism of certain things I've noticed over the ages, both while I was a mod, and was watching the process, and from talking to people who have accumulated warnings perhaps more quickly than seemed entirely fair.

I understand the staff may not want this thread staying here, but I would humbly suggest that there's a lot of material in here that anyone hoping to be a fair judge would do well to consider. You guys can read deleted threads.

seebs · 05-21-2003, 10:33 PM

And before anyone panics, yes, I talked to the mod who moved the thread, and agreed with the reasoning. Now it's in the staff forums, where they can either confront it straight on, or write it off to "gosh, seebs is a jerk".

Tenek · 05-21-2003, 11:12 PM

Seebs: Flattening stereotypes of idiotic Christians since.. uh... whenever you were born. Nice work.

Quote:

Winace
Damn, I think you just one-upped Annabel's old custom title at CF that *I* suggested.

I should probably remember what that is, but I don't. Oh well..

Thank Blizzard for making a Succubus superunique and then never putting it in the damned game. Pretty good name to waste, if you ask me... anyways... uh... where was I...

Go Annabel!

05-21-2003, 10:19 PM	#1128
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	(repost) How to get someone banned (posted this in suggestions/bugs/complaints on CF, but I'm not sure it'll last there.) This is offered mostly as a mild critique of a pattern I've noticed in the way the board's rules are enforced, which leads to the potential success of a few simple tactics you can use to get someone banned, if that person is consistently inconvenient to your debate. A few ground rules: 1. Lying isn't against the rules. Calling someone a liar is. Use this heavily; make whatever claims you want, reiterate them after they've been corrected, and just keep on hammering. Sooner or later, someone will accuse you of dishonesty. REPORT THAT POST! It's a flame. Remember, there's all sorts of intellectual dishonesty which are not ACTUALLY lies. 2. Be as aggravating as you can manage without actually flaming. Remember, there's no rule against inciting to flame; there's only a rule against actually flaming. Make derisive comments. If someone posts a long, detailed, reasoned reply to your points, don't waste time replying seriously; just send a joking and derisive response. You can be pretty condescending without "flaming", and of course, as long as you use smileys and laugh a lot, you're not flaming - you're joking around. 3. Remember to play to the audience. There are certain common traits the moderating staff will have, and they're human. That means they will be a little more sensitive to posts the content of which they disagree with, than they are to posts the content of which they agree with. If you couch it right, you can say that someone is going to Hell for disagreeing with you, and get smiles and nods from the all-too-human moderators. Play this up for all it's worth; it's a powerful tool. 4. As a corollary to 3., remember to play up ways in which your opponent doesn't agree with the staff. Arguing with a preterist? Be sure to bring it up, and maybe make a derisive remark. An angry response could well get your opponent out of your life, forever! The same goes double for pagans and atheists. Insult them, mock them, and make false claims about their beliefs; when they try to correct you, report them for promoting non-Christian religions. If they try to attack you, report them for attacking Christianity. You have a one-way force field here; use it! 5. Report everything you can. Never explain. Never give context. Make as much work for the moderators as you can; every minute they spend figuring out what on earth you're complaining about is a minute they don't have to read the whole context of another thread - and when they have to make decisions without enough context, their personal opinions will color their behavior. 6. (Advanced topics). Make sure you call attention to the fundamentally Christian nature of your position at all times. Attacking people? Just say it's a rebuke. Cruel? No, no, you're just trying to show tough love. If you're not sure, quote a Bible verse or three. 7. Remember, if you make an assertion over and over, any sane person will eventually either call you on this abusive behavior, or give up. If it's the latter, you won! Your point, being the last word, is obviously correct. If it's the former, REPORT THAT POST! You've been flamed, by being accused of bad debate tactics. 8. Misquote! There's no rule against taking something someone said out of context and replying to it. If someone says something sarcastic, thank them for agreeing with you. Remember, errors aren't against the rules, no matter how intentional - only flames. 9. Preface attacks with "I believe", or better yet, "the Bible says". It doesn't matter whether the Bible actually says it; you're just expressing your own opinion of what the Bible teaches, right? That's great! Do it up. 10. Cast your opponent as a troublemaker. The mods may make an extra effort to keep an eye on a troublemaker - that means that they have more time to spot your opponent's occasional flirtations with the boundaries of the rules, and less time to spot yours. And remember, people expect to see what you tell them is there... Remember to always play with the gray areas. The staff are honest; they will enforce the rules as fairly as they can. The grey areas are where you can play up the fallibility of the human staff, and get their instincts to work against their committment to fairness. It's an uphill battle, but given the advice in this guide, you should be able to get rid of anyone who is making you look bad. And remember, if anyone complains, just say it's vitally important that you save souls. Most people won't stop to ask you whether your tactics can possibly be a good way to do this; good intentions make up for a lot. But be wary of where that road leads... And yes, this is meant somewhat as a sincere and considered criticism of certain things I've noticed over the ages, both while I was a mod, and was watching the process, and from talking to people who have accumulated warnings perhaps more quickly than seemed entirely fair. I understand the staff may not want this thread staying here, but I would humbly suggest that there's a lot of material in here that anyone hoping to be a fair judge would do well to consider. You guys can read deleted threads.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-21-2003, 07:12 PM	#1122
Gunnaheave Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 3,250	I was wondering what happened to all my oregano.

05-21-2003, 07:53 PM	#1124
Gunnaheave Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 3,250	Is it really Smilin's birthday? Happy birthday Smilin. (I'll send my condolances to the community in whch you were born. I'm sure they will get it all repaired some day.)

05-21-2003, 09:28 PM	#1125
WinAce Beloved Deceased Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Carrboro, NC Posts: 1,539	Happy Birthday, Mr. Smile E.N.

05-21-2003, 10:33 PM	#1129
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	And before anyone panics, yes, I talked to the mod who moved the thread, and agreed with the reasoning. Now it's in the staff forums, where they can either confront it straight on, or write it off to "gosh, seebs is a jerk".

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.