pangloss

He is a sick bastard.


Many years ago, when I lived in Grand Rapids, MI, a local community fundie church pastor found out that a local music teacher was gay.

Being a right-wing homophobe, and a preacher of intolerance (as are most right-wing fundy preachers), he started a smear campaign against this guy. It involved flyers in parking lots and everything.

The gay music teacher was fired - not becaus ehe was gay, or a bad teacher - he was in fact very popular and his actual students stood up for him - but because this preacher and his congregation had swayed the dim-witted parents in the communtiy to rebel and demand his firing.

After this occurred, the teacher became do depressed and distraught that he committed suicide.

The preacher that started it all - the sick son of a bitch - said in a TV interview basically that it was a good thing and that he was rpoud.

How does psycho-dimbulb Cal fit in?

A few months after the teacher's suicide, he came to give a speech at the church.

He lauded their efforts and mocked the people in the community that had given support to the teacher.


I can only say:

What an asshole Cal Thomas is.

hungry_student

Yeah,

It's really, really sad to me when some people give "Christianity" or whatever it is they believe such a bad name. Anyone who even remotely understands the teachings of Jesus should be appalled when such things are done in his name. It's been happening for hundreds of years, and I doubt it will end soon. It really makes it hard for people that are trying to live how Jesus commanded to overcome the stereotypes that are given them.

-Matt

Vorkosigan

What teaching did Jesus give us on the subject of overcoming prejudice toward homosexuals?

Oolon Colluphid

Ah, that’s an easy one. He said:

Matthew 5:18-19:
"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven."

and

Luke 16:17:
"It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."

That presumably has to include laws such as Leviticus 20:13:
“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”

Any thoughts, hungry_student?

DT

Camaban

Last year, if I'd believed in a god, I'd have probably topped myself...

Why?

Because I was quite close to convincing myself that someone was against me personally (my love life is one long string of false hopes... The most recent involved the person getting her drink spiked and blaming me, otherwise would have gone fine)

hungry_student

Very interesting topic, and one that I've recently debated with a number of people. My response is this. Jesus entire ministry wasn't focused on works and keeping the law. It was the unimportance of the law through faith. If we simply have faith in him, then our actions become meaningless. This creates an obvious contradiction. We just believe in him, get to go to Heaven, and then proceed to do whatever we want for the rest of our lives. I honestly believe that when someone truly surrenders their lives to Jesus, and not only believe in his existence, but in his power and ability to guide one's life, then our actions will truly become of no meaning. Of course it will still be a struggle for us to keep the law (the law concerning sins, not the U.S. law), but it will by no means be the focal point of our lives.

Another big point to be made, when Jesus was asked to sum up all of the law and the prophets, he said:
"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." "

Also, "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."

I believe that Jesus was more concerned with love than judgement. In fact, I don't know of any place in his ministry where he condemns someone for their faults, other than the story in the temple where he overturns all of the tables. A woman caught in the act of adultery, as men were ready to stone her, he replied, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, "Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?"
She said, "No one, Lord."
And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more"

Finally, we can see by Jesus' lifestyle of eating with all of the sinners, that he came to save that which was lost. His heart was for those who were rejected by society, much like homosexuals are today. I think the Bible makes it pretty clear that homosexuality is wrong, but I will by no means condemn someone for doing it, instead I will hang out with them and tell them that they are loved, because I am sure that they get plenty of crap from everyone else on earth.

Did that answer your question, Vork?

-Matt

RufusAtticus

Hey guys if you want to discuss Xian, et al. views of homosexuality and homosexuals I suggest that you go to General Religious Discussions or Moral Foundations and Prinicples.

Thanx.

RufusAtticus
E/C Moderator

hungry_student

sorry.

openeyes

Gregg--Thought you made many excellent points in your 2/14 long post. May make a copy to keep for points of discussion when debating the merits versus problems of religion in schools, since I think you summed up the argument well.

KC

But why should the government have to do this, in addition to a gazillion churches with evangelizing budgets?

KC