Magus55

You won't be thinking about the lost in Hell in Heaven. There is no sadness in Heaven ( which is biblical). How God does it, we have no clue. He just said He would do it. It will probably be because we will have such heightened intelligence and understanding, we will come to the full realization that they chose to be there, and we have to accept that choice. God is also infinitely more important than relatives. Sure, relatives are important - but being in God's precense and love for all eternity is all we need.

Paperstreet

This might be said better by someone older and more experienced then myself, but how can you have pleasure without pain? You need both of them to exist, otherwise you just "are".


What happened to not having a clue? You constantly tell opposers of your beliefs to not say things we don't know about God. But look at you!!! You just implied saying "we dont know, but to back up my faith I will make something up so I feel better."

There have been numerous contemplations about choosing to go to hell... like, what about people born before Jesus, or a tribesman living deep in the jungle, or mentally retarted people. I could go deeper into the fact that God "made us" and "made me" incapable of being irrational enough to believe in him, or, "having a lack of faith".

You imply that we will learn all about gods masterfully worked plan. Knowing all he has in store for us. That would also include knowing all he has in store for my mom. Therefore, I will know that my mom is trapped in hell forever. I wouldn't choose to ignore that, just because I am in heaven, chillin with God, knowing such terrible things would be pretty bad IMO.

Mageth

Magus:

You are saved by Jesus' death and ressurection, because He conquered death ( the ultimate consequence of sin). Believing in Him, is a spiritual pardon because you accept his sacrifice as payment for your sins.

So again, which is it? Am I saved by Jesus' death or by believing in him and accepting his sacrifice?

Now the only problem with the analogy is a judge wouldn't actually pardon a criminal because He doesn't have infinite love and mercy for the criminal, despite what He did.

Not the only problem. In the U.S. Justice system, if that's what you're referring to, judges can't pardon criminals at all, to my knowledge. Governors sometimes can, in certain circumstances. And in any case, criminals are sometimes pardoned.

Anyway, sorry for the long post - hope that answered you somewhat Mageth.

No problem with the long post. But I've heard it all before, and your explanation still boils down to god sacrificing himself to himself to save us from himself. And still leaves open the question of why action on my part (belief/acceptance) is necessary to save myself from god's wrath if I can't save myself and therefore god had to sacrifice himself to himself to save me from himself.

Mageth

Magus:

As i tried to explain to Demigawd, not being able to defy your own eternal nature has nothing to do with omnipotence.
Webster's defines omnipotent as having virtually unlimited authority, influence, or power.

OK, I understand Webster's definition, but I fail to see how that definition could be seen as restricting god from changing his mind.

Mageth

Magus:

You won't be thinking about the lost in Hell in Heaven.

How do you know this?

Mageth

Stop putting God into paradoxes that are illogical and universally impossible.

Do you believe in a god that is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipresent? If you do, you shouldn't complain about someone here putting god into illogical, impossible paradoxes.

And you yourself said "Bottom line is, the Trinity is a concept, alot like omniscience that the human mind just can't fully comprehend."

Nowhere357

Magus, you have ignored my point. I have no choice then but to accept that as concession.

A good god would not punish people for eternity.
The xian god punishes people for eternity.
Therefore the xian god is not good.

Therefore moral people should seek enlightenment through some means OTHER than xianity.

It's not that complicated.

Mageth

Nowhere357:

Was the above post supposed to be directed at Magus55?

I, for one, couldn't agree more with your point.

Nowhere357

Ouch. My bad. Very sorry. I've edited the post to correct that.

Nowhere357

Magus, you have ignored my point. I have no choice then but to accept that as concession.

A good god would not punish people for eternity.
The xian god punishes people for eternity.
Therefore the xian god is not good.

Therefore moral people should seek enlightenment through some means OTHER than xianity.

It's not that complicated.