BadBadBad

You denied it earlier when I implied that God did destroy souls. Now you're implying that God does destroy souls. Which is it?

Does God destroy souls? If so, why did he bother to create my soul in the first place? You've said that my punishment is the second and final death. My punishment is that I just cease to exist. The lack of existence is not something I'll ever experience. Therefore, I'll never experience punishment.

It says in Exodus:

And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him: And that thou mayest tell in the ears of thy son, and of thy son's son, what things I have wrought in Egypt, and my signs which I have done among them; that ye may know how that I am the LORD.

Pharoah had a purpose. He provided the scenario for God to flex is muscles and show his merciless glory for all to see. That convinced a lot of people, even Pharoah with his God hardened heart, that God was real and God was glorious. The concept that I will be damned to unbelievable torture for eternity has lead countless ions of folks to fear God and have faith in these otherwise silly stories.

Now we don't have God's biblical miracles. He's embarrassingly absent. Now you want to deny what the Bible and history says about hell and eternal damnation. Now God's glorious justice amounts to nothing more than me dying. What's so horrible and glorious about that? It's a pretty lousy carrot and stick proposition. The carrot is the real motivator here. It's like telling the mule that he can plow the field and get the carrot or sit in the field all his life and get no carrots. Where's the stick? If there's no stick, where is my purpose? If I have no purpose and God will create me and destroy me all in the blink of his timeless eye, what's the point? What kind of game are we playing here?

Oh, and if God doesn't destroy souls, as you and I now both agree that the Bible implies he does, who does destroy my soul? After my death, my soul is immaterial, it exists nowhere, at no time. How do you destroy something like that?

BadBadBad

So if this is all true and it all makes so much sense, why would answering my questions pull your chain? Why can't you answer my questions, and why do your answers bring up so many more unanswerable questions? Why instead of answering are you now talking about my motives? Why not just answer the questions?

This has always bothered me as well. God created me with complete foreknowledge of my nature and my entire future. He knew exactly what level of knowledge I would require to believe in him. God has provided all the information available to mankind about his existence. God has provided knowledge of himself that he knew in advance would be insufficient to convince me. He could have decided to provide sufficient information, but he intentionally did not. Later, so the story goes, God will provide sufficient information to convince me of his existence, but he will decide at that point it's too late. God is stacking his ominpotent powers to hide against my feeble powers to seek. God created me and my feeble powers, and on top of that he hardened my heart, just to be sure. It's actually quite a silly game we're playing.

inquisitive01

At the site of Gehenna, God would destroy those souls with what is referred to as the Second Death. The souls that would be destroyed (at the site of Gehenna) would be the souls of the lost (those not saved). You seem to be suggesting that all souls will be destroyed, which is one reason why I don't follow your reasoning. :huh:




The part in red above suggests to me that you have already made up your mind about this subject and are possibly here just to "yank chains," as stated earlier.



????? :huh: How is God absent from these miracles, since it was through God these miracles were performed?



Once again, the Bible says God is ABLE to destroy one's soul (apparently at the site of Gehenna... the Second Death).


Since nobody knows what/where the soul is, how do you know it's "immaterial?" Also, your "How do you destroy something like that?" cannot be answered by anyone, for the reason mentioned in the sentence before this (nobody knows...).


Now, I've answered those questions of yours that I feel an answer can be given for (not all questions can be answered by humans). If this is not enough to satisfy you, then I don't know what else you expect. :huh:

Newton Joseph

For those who "have their part in the lake of fire," it is everlasting punishment (no return from it; no more chances after this for eternity), not the everlasting act of punishing.[/QUOTE]


THE CONCEPT OF HELL WAS GIVEN A BAD NAME BY CHRISTIANS, HELL IS AN OK PLACE TO GO TO


GO TO HELL*
xx

{snip}

removed text duplicates that from this post at the top of this page

*Go To Hell! Is owned by Dr. Newton Joseph. Recorded/filed in official records. Recorder's office Los Angeles County California 10:41 am Jan 07 2000 #00-0028110

:devil1:



[email protected]

Sparrow

Well, within the limitation of the posting process, this is a conversation. Do you expect all the questions to be laid out in advance or do you think new questions can be created in response to a previous answer?

BadBadBad

No, we've been consistently talking about "non-saved" souls. I said does God destroy souls or not? We've talked only about the destiny of non-saved souls. Why does simply souls plural equate suddenly to all souls?

You're answering my questions based upon what it says in Revelations like I should take you seriously. Just because you say so. Just because Revelation says so. You didn't mention what else Revelation says:

11:4-10
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

You're relying on Matthew, but you didn't mention what else it says:

8:28-34
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils. And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

This is utter silliness; utter nonsense. Hell, Heaven, the orginal sin, the resurrection, God, Christ are completely surrounded by this nonsense. They too are an equal part of the nonsense. I didn't come here to pull your chain. I came here to say that. I came here to point it out to anyone that will listen. I came here to laugh with like-minded people.

We don't have God's biblical miracles today. God supplied people of Exodous sufficient knowledge to believe in God. Even Pharoah was sufficiently convinced despite God's heart hardening trick. I don't see any miracles of biblical proportion today. You tell me there's no tormenting in Hell. I'll die, the cow will die, but you'll go to heaven, because you believed these silly goat herder myths. Some how the message of God has changed a little. It's not nearly as convincing as you claim it was thousands of years ago.

Which is it? Does God destroy souls or not? Oh, and I know you might be confused still about that plural souls. Let me rephrase. Does God destroy souls that are not saved or not?

I know it's immaterial, because something that doesn't exist is necessarily immaterial. No, this question can be answered, and I just answered it for you. Who destroys souls? How is it done? It's not done because souls and God don't exist.

First of all, you haven't answered all the questions by a long shot. For example, does God destroy souls or not? Even you can answer that one.

Oh no, there's an answer alright. It's a real simple answer. Your silly stories don't add up!

Rational BAC

Honestly brettc-------

You argue like the worst type of fundie. Memories of Magus--

Trust me--there is no fundie fire and brimstone hell. There ain't no fire, there ain't no brimstone. There may be gnashing of teeth. At least to not any great detriment to anyone.

( I actually do that sometimes, gnash my teeth while sleeping---something to do with bad dreams I think) Would have to ask my dentist if it was life or death threatening--but I think he would say no, just typical old age crap.

There may possibly be a hell of non-existence.

But you would never know, would you?

inquisitive01

If, no matter what answers are provided (if they can be provided), you are still going to believe it is "utter silliness" or "utter nonsense," then what's the point . . . you've already made up your mind. Like I said before, it seems like you're just here to "yank chains," and the quote above shows that. Thanks for providing the "evidence". :thumbs:

Rational BAC

Agree with that one --

brettc comes on line to pull theist's chain.

And I come on to pull atheists' chain.

Kind of a draw.

BadBadBad

That's a pretty tired ad homenim with you RBAC. It doesn't address anything I've said. I'll answer you anyway. There's a significant difference. Fundies argue that what the Bible says is true. I argue that it says what it says, and hence it can't be true. I argue that if you believe what it says, ignore it or pervert it, what you come up with is still fundamentally silly.

Why the fundy adjectives RBAC (ie fire and brimstone)? You still haven't answered that question.

Then answer the arguments that have been presented rather than asking me to trust you. Here's another argument to add to the list. The word Hell is defined by the historical doctrine of Christianity. Therefore a hell of non-existence is an oxymoron. Neither of us will ever know (you'll die too never to have another beer or virgin), but while we're here, we can draw some conclusions about what makes sense or not.