Steven Carr

How could Cook have done that? Be realistic!

Cook couldn't even tell you what the laws of logic are.

Just ask presuppositionalists for a list of the laws of logic, and you will silence them.

Meatros

It seems as though presuppositionalists attempt to argue transcendentally (ie, the TAG), however their argument ultimately isn't transcendental - it's an abductive argument.

My question is, how does showing that my worldview is incoherent enough to demonstrate that your worldview is not only coherent, but the only possible coherent worldview?

I've asked numerous presuppositionalists this and their best response seems to be to try to say that their argument is inductively probable - but even then, they don't tell me why that would be.

Meatros

Perhaps the materialist has to, but certainly not all atheists. What's wrong with me presupposing logic/uniformity of nature/morality is just a brute fact of the universe? Say I'm a property dualist and I take this stance, what would your objection (provided you have one, of course), be?

punkforchrist

I don't believe it does. I'm not a strong Presuppositionalist, if you will. Presuppositionalism can show that the Christian worldview is sufficient, but it can't prove that it's necessary.

Well, if you're a moral realist, for example, then I would ask how is it possible to have moral absolutes in abstraction from a personal agent?

Meatros

I don't see how it shows that the Christian worldview is sufficient - unless by 'sufficient' you just mean a coherent worldview. Is that what you mean?

If so, how is it actually arguing for the Christian worldview?

Say that I'm either a relativist or I believe that morals are an intrinsic part of the universe - it's just another brute fact of the universe. What would your criticism be?

I also have some questions pertaining creationists (ie, the type that denies evolution) who are presuppositionalists (would that be you?).

PaulK

But how can it do that when the presuppositionalist worldview is incoherent and fails the test it proposes for other worldviews ?

punkforchrist

Right, I'm just saying that the Christian worldview is coherent.

Well, I would say it's more rational to accept a coherent worldview than an incoherent one.

At that point, you would be back to reductionism rather than any form of dualism.

I believe relativism is self-defeating. Is it wrong to talk about absolute moral standards?

No, I'm a theistic evolutionist.

punkforchrist

When did you stop beating your wife?

In all seriousness, if you have any questions about the coherence of the Christian worldview, I would be happy to try to answer them.

PaulK

The presuppositonalist worldview is at best A Christian worldview. Perhaps you can explain why presuppositionalists see so unwilling to acknowledge even that fact.

Then you can deal with the hard question. Since presuppositionalism assumes that logical truths are only contingently true, how can it avoid falling into the very trap that it claims that other worldviews fall into ?

punkforchrist

If I understand you correctly, you're asking why some Christians are not Presuppositionalists?

I don't know of any Presuppositionalists who hold that logical truths are contingently true. Could you elaborate?