dk

• Glory: Hre we are again. Lets get a couple of things clear.
  dk: No, hear you go again. Try to stay focused on the issue.
• Glory: First, the possibility of failure does not indicate the likelihood of failure nor does it indicate a trend of failure.
  dk: Huh? There is zero possibility for an abortion where preventative birth control succeeds. As the probability of failure increases the number of abortions increase. Do the math.
• Glory: Second, In order to be effective a thing must be employed. You continue to ignore these facts as they are inconvenient for you.
  dk: It’s impossible for a women to plan an unplanned problem pregnancy. Surely this logic isn’t beyond you!!!. The reasons that preventative birth control fails is speculative, while the event of an unplanned problem pregnancy defines a failure. It’s as simple as heads and tails.
• Glory: Third, Justice O'connor's oppinion on abortion is irrelevant. She does not site statisics. She only acknowledges that contraception does not always occur. She does not say anything about the reasons for its failure. Contraception includes the rhythm method. We all know how well that works. Justice O'connor also refrains from making any speculation about people who rely on the availability of abortion. She merely observes that they exist. Her comments do not reflect the reliability of contraception.
  dk: Really, couples that practice rhythm don’t have abortions because they 1) tend to be open to life 2) consider an unplanned pregnancy a blessing 3) understand human life is sacred and a blessing beyond human power or wisdom. The divorce rate of families that practice natural birth control is under 5%, and they tend to have large happy families.
• Glory: Fourth, the side effects of some forms of contraception have no effect on the success or failure rate of that form of contraception. They are a drawback, for some, to contraception. Your mention of the side effects, again, is part of your overall attempt to slander birthcontrol.
  dk: That’s a little like saying, “The operation was a success, but the patent died.”, your inability to come to terms with reality being systematic of mental illness.
• Glory: Fifth, your reference to forms of birth control which prevent implantation as "schemes" is designed to elicit a negative reaction much like your earlier use of the word steroids. More slander.
  dk: Clarity facts slanders no-one, except people caught with their head buried in the sand.
• Glory: Sixth, contraception has prevented more abortions than anyone can count.
  dk: Sterilization and genocide prevent more abortions than anyone can count. So what? The idea of terminating human beings to solve social, economic and political ills only serves to denigrate human life. Once human life becomes sufficiently degenerate killing empowers people to exercise liberty, to be all that they can be.
• Glory: You conclude that contraception actually costs women control over their bodies. That requires an astounding feat of mental and logical gymnastics.
  dk: I agree, a hard pill to swallow, even when sugar coated.
• Glory: I conclude that you think we are stupid. Sorry to disappoint you but when someone tells me that 2+2=5 I notice the lie.
  dk: I don’t think you’re stupid, but have been barricaded inside a cave so long you find the shadows reassuring.

Glory

brighid,

Excellent point. There is no identified physical reason for sleep but does anyone believe that we don't need it? Humans have emotional and mental needs as well as physical.

A word on sexual abuse by clergy. One theory that I think has merit is that pedophiles are attracted to the clergy because they hope that by devoting themselves to God and an asexual life, they can make those disturbing feelings and urges go away or, at least, be controlable. I think the repression of sexual desires takes its toll on priests but when it does, why wouldn't they simply have sex with an adult rather than abuse children? I beleive the disease is already there before they take their vows.

Glory

brighid

Fondle yourself! One of the biggest problems some women have is that they have no idea how their own body works. Masturbation seems disturbing and disgusting, mostly because we have been taught we aren’t to enjoy sex, sexual desire is bad and its especially bad for women to have and that good girls don’t! One of the best gifts you can give yourself is the ability to bring yourself to orgasm all alone. It’s the safest sex your are going to ever have and depending on your partner’s abilities it may also be the most satisfying sex you will have. How can you communicate what you want with a future partner if you don’t actually know what you like or want?

Masturbation is also a safe way to explore your own fantasies. No one gets hurt. No diseases are exchanged. It is also a great stress reliever or if you are having a difficult time falling asleep it will help you to relax enough to fall asleep. It can also help keep those natural and hormonal driven desires in check while engaging in a plutonic, love relationship.

When and if your relationship with your boyfriend evolves to a more physical dynamic mutual masturbation is a safe way to please one another sexually. If you think masturbation of yourself or your boyfriend is icky you are DEFINITELY not ready for sexual intercourse!! Know yourself first. Be comfortable in your own skin. Your genitalia is NOT icky, dirty or something to avoided out of deeply ingrained sexual shame. Honestly, get to know your body. It’s healthy!

Brighid

Glory

Nice. Try to refrain from being an (bad word deleted by Michael, tsk, tsk).



Does it hurt to be so obtuse? Look up the word possibility and then look up the word probability and then see if you can figure out where you went wrong. You assume a probability that does not exist. You are just wrong about the reliability of contraception. You coudn't be more wrong if you said the sun was made of cotton candy.



Not using birth control does not imply planning a pregnancy. You have made so many baseless assumptions to get to this it doesn't bear up to the most cursory scrutiny. You are living in fantasy land.



They tend to have large families because the rhythm method does not work. "Natural birth control" is no birth control.

I submit that you have no idea how indidviduals react to unplanned pregnancy, why they may or may not divorce, their relative happiness or how "open to life" they may be. You assume that all this is true because it makes you feel good to do so. You also slid in that lovely assertion that anyone who practices birth control is "anti life." This is a deceitful and low tactic.



You are no position to sling around such assertions.

Birth control does not kill it's practitioners. Indeed, I use it and experience no ill effects whatsoever. ou can be as melodramatic deceitful as you like. It doesn't make a difference to people who know the truth of the matter. It just makes you look desperate.



True. Maybe you should pull yours out and start supporting your arguments with facts instead of lies, inuendo, halftruths and irrelevancies.



Uh huh. Birth control is equivalent to terminating human beings?

Because there is a discussion on going about the definition of a person with regards to abortion, I am goig to refrain from comment. Suffice to say, your thinking is, uh, affected by your religion. As such I am not going to argue a tenet of your faith. What would be the point.



More like impossible since one would have to believe in the invisible pill in order to do anything with it.

I would say I thought the same of you but I do think you are stupid.

Glory

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: Glory ]

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]</p>

tronvillain

brighid:
Exactly. How said is it that I have had to introduce girlfriends to masturbation and vibrators? Still, I'm older now and hopefully dating older people , so perhaps it won't happen again.

brighid

Tron –

It is very sad, but lucky for those girls they met a man like you Some guys are just as clueless … unfortunately I have experienced that type, but NO MORE I went through a long period of self-imposed celibacy and I am telling ya without flying solo I would have burst, or did something I would have regretted later because I was just too damn horny …

Older women … we are definitely better… where were you when I was younger??? Ah – Canada …. Damnit!

Brighid

Clutch

dk, math wizard,

Yes, please. Do the math. Arithmetic, actually.

Your claim, again:
Some simple facts: Sometimes people get pregnant because of the unreliability of preventative birth control; sometimes they get pregnant because they were raped; sometimes they get pregnant because they were too ignorant to know about birth control; sometimes they get pregnant because they were too ashamed to acquire birth control devices; sometimes they get pregnant because they were too ashamed to suggest the use of birth control to their partner.

Hence, the frequency of abortion cannot be used as an indication of the reliability of preventative birth control.

This would be obvious to a sixth-grader. Quoting judges does not enable you to dodge the problem. It simply illustrates either your dishonesty or ineptness.

Clutch

To follow up: I don't have a sixth-grader living in my house, but maybe someone who does could test my conjecture.

Try the following quiz: "In the zoo, there are lions, tigers, and zebras. Suppose there are ten animals altogether. Does that mean there are ten zebras?"

If the youngster answers "No", s/he has grasped what continues to elude dk on the relation between the frequency of abortions and the reliability of birth control.

dk

Problems with intimacy force many people to rely on masturbation and vibrators.

tronvillain

dk:
And just what do you know about intimacy?Masturbation and vibrators can be an excellent aid to sex and intimacy.

Oh, and thanks for the support brighid. While I am a bit of a recovering <a href="http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml" target="_blank">Nice Guy</a>, sex is not one of my weak points.

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: tronvillain ]</p>