Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Qinopio · 05-22-2003, 07:41 PM

According to the professor of my "Jesus & The Gospels" class last year, Essenes often started families young, and then when their children were old enough to start families on their own (late teens), they would go off to live communally with other Essenes devoted to purity and the other Essene practices. Jesus was very closely associated with the Essenes. So some suggest that Jesus had a family before his ministry, but there isn't really any evidence for it besides the above.

Roland · 05-22-2003, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by twisted brother
ROLAND, YOUR ALL CAPS IS OFFENSIVE. I DID NOT YELL AT YOU SO DON'T YELL AT ME. IF YOU DIDN'T MEAN TO YELL, TURN OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK.

Actually I was using a computer at work that doesn't allow me to quote, so I used the caps to differentiate between your comments and mine.

Actually, there have been studies to show that homosexuality is hereditary, I'll get to work looking them up. And of course, Roland, most homosexuals are born to heterosexuals. That would be the most likely way for people to have babies. Heredity is not limited to the parents, heredity is an influence of all of the genetic heritage of the parents. It is possible to inherit something from your mother which was not realized in her.

Actually, I have no trouble believing it MIGHT be hereditary, but I don't think anyone can make the kind of definitive statement you made about it.

In fact:

http://health.discovery.com/centers/...sexuality.html

And while it may be the case that gay men like the company of women, they must prefer men over all - because they are gay. That is the definition of homosexuality is they play hide the weasel with other men, even if they like to shop with women.

Yes, but that's my point. Where does it say that Jesus played hide the weasel with anyone?

And finally, Roland, I think that vows of celibacy are complete bullshit. Not only does there seem to be quite a few pedophile priests who tried to leave their sexuality behind and couldn't, but there are many, many, many homosexual priests who take the vow and break it. I know from extensive, first hand experience. Jesus never iterated a vow of celibacy.

Perhaps, but I will here admit that I was a virgin till the age of 37 and have only had sex with one person - my partner of 7 years. Remeber, I would be THRILLED to find out Jesus were gay. I just don't think there's enough actual evidence to make that case. Certainly, I think a better case could be made for King David and his relationship with Jonathan.

And Magus55, you speak more to my point: if he ate, slept, peed, pooped, got popped outta Mary, and rode on a donkey, why do you think he didn't have sexual relations? Does it say he didn't expressly? Or does it just not say?

I think the more interesting question is: did Jesus masturbate?

Toto: I'm sorry, I have a tendency to be indirect and simply imply what I mean.
I mean if he went into the wilderness with his chums and got a little delirious from lack of water, and they slept out in the open, and it gets cold in the desert at night, they mighta huddled together and...well, if you ever huddled together with a bunch of guys at night, trying to stay warm, you'd know.

I actually requested this thread be killed because right out of the box, it was pointed out to me that my first statement was flawed (funny, but flawed).

Roland · 05-22-2003, 08:02 PM

Wow did my last post come out messy!

I guess I haven't mastered this quoting thing very well on here.

SLD · 05-22-2003, 08:39 PM

I think the real question is whether Paul was gay. I doubt the Jesus as described in the Bible existed, but I don't see him as a gay figure. I think we're putting our own modern prejudices and stereotypes into that world when we start analyzing Jesus's gay attributes.

Paul on the other hand expressed bizarre disdain for sex. That does make me wonder.

SLD

Vinnie · 05-22-2003, 10:55 PM

This is equivalent to asking if Jesus liked to swim or not. There is simply NO means of answering the question.

Jesus might have been a homosexual who practiced celibacy. he may have been one who did not. He may have been heterosexual and slept with prostitutes, some of his woman followers or he may not have. He may have been bisexual and had orgies with his male and female followers. He may have slept with animals. He may have not. There is simply no evidence for any of this.

At best it may be argued on the basis of literary silence that Jesus did not marry. That is the only thing possibly of being argued on the basis of the early literary data that we have or in this case, that we do not have. Though it may be possible that Jesus had a wife who died early and the tradition simply was not transmitted to us. Who knows? No one can say for certain.

Vinnie

05-23-2003, 06:30 AM

Calzaer:

Quote:

This is sort of like debating whether or not Optimus Prime was gay, in that neither he nor Jesus WAS EVER A REAL PERSON. Geeze.

I think that he was a real person, just as Buddha, Mohammed, Confucius and Joseph Smith were probably real. It's the hocus-pocus part I don't believe.

I do however feel that it is a very, very important topic to discuss. I'm only glad there are better read, more articulate folks on these boards than I am.

Why is it important? I have learned from a Monseigneur friend of mine that one thing that priests would most like their parishoners to realize is that they are human. They drink, smoke and sometimes even masturbate or have sex. They are just a susceptible to sin as we are. I believe that is a critical next step for xians to learn that Jesus was a human being. Only when they start to consider the star of the bible a human can they start to see that the stories are moral lessons and not fact. Once they realize that the bible is not a factual account of history, they may be able to see it in the context of the many moral lessons from religion, philosophy and history.

Qinopio

Quote:

According to the professor of my "Jesus & The Gospels" class last year, Essenes often started families young, and then when their children were old enough to start families on their own (late teens), they would go off to live communally with other Essenes devoted to purity and the other Essene practices. Jesus was very closely associated with the Essenes. So some suggest that Jesus had a family before his ministry, but there isn't really any evidence for it besides the above.

Really "gay" is just a label. But what it means is that the person is more likely to have sex with men. Kinseys would point out that it is really shades of grey - a continuum. But to assert and prove that Jesus has sex, and probably with men, may get some middle-of-the-road xians to admit that consensual sex is not reason to send someone to prison.

mark9950 · 05-23-2003, 09:12 PM

If this jesus had any male anatomy at all.I still think Jesus,if he even existed had different plumbing.

Magus55 · 05-23-2003, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calzaer
This is sort of like debating whether or not Optimus Prime was gay, in that neither he nor Jesus WAS EVER A REAL PERSON. Geeze.

There ya go again, stating Jesus wasn't real. That really is a dumb argument. If Jesus isn't real, neither is Columbus or Julius Ceasar. Very few Historians are dumb enough to state that Jesus didn't exist.

Magus55 · 05-23-2003, 10:24 PM

Roland, No Jesus did not have sexual relations because 1) He is God, and God has no need for that, 2) There is absolutely no mention of Jesus ever getting married or having a significant other, and premarital sex is a sin, and Jesus was sinless - therefore didn't do it.

mark9950 · 05-23-2003, 11:18 PM

Artifacts in iraq and the middle east proving the akkadian,mesopotamian and babylonian empire existed than there is proof that a moses ever lead the israelites out of egypt.

I even heard from another website that the ancient egyptians never recorded the exodus from egypt and they kept records,records of their downfall.Heck as far as I know the ancient egyptians never had slaves.

They built their own cities during their season of farming.

05-23-2003, 09:12 PM	#17
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	You should really wander If this jesus had any male anatomy at all.I still think Jesus,if he even existed had different plumbing.

05-23-2003, 11:18 PM	#20
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	There is more archaeological Artifacts in iraq and the middle east proving the akkadian,mesopotamian and babylonian empire existed than there is proof that a moses ever lead the israelites out of egypt. I even heard from another website that the ancient egyptians never recorded the exodus from egypt and they kept records,records of their downfall.Heck as far as I know the ancient egyptians never had slaves. They built their own cities during their season of farming.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-22-2003, 07:41 PM	#11
Qinopio Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 40	According to the professor of my "Jesus & The Gospels" class last year, Essenes often started families young, and then when their children were old enough to start families on their own (late teens), they would go off to live communally with other Essenes devoted to purity and the other Essene practices. Jesus was very closely associated with the Essenes. So some suggest that Jesus had a family before his ministry, but there isn't really any evidence for it besides the above.

05-22-2003, 08:02 PM	#13
Roland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 748	Wow did my last post come out messy! I guess I haven't mastered this quoting thing very well on here.

05-22-2003, 08:39 PM	#14
SLD Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 4,109	I think the real question is whether Paul was gay. I doubt the Jesus as described in the Bible existed, but I don't see him as a gay figure. I think we're putting our own modern prejudices and stereotypes into that world when we start analyzing Jesus's gay attributes. Paul on the other hand expressed bizarre disdain for sex. That does make me wonder. SLD

05-22-2003, 10:55 PM	#15
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	This is equivalent to asking if Jesus liked to swim or not. There is simply NO means of answering the question. Jesus might have been a homosexual who practiced celibacy. he may have been one who did not. He may have been heterosexual and slept with prostitutes, some of his woman followers or he may not have. He may have been bisexual and had orgies with his male and female followers. He may have slept with animals. He may have not. There is simply no evidence for any of this. At best it may be argued on the basis of literary silence that Jesus did not marry. That is the only thing possibly of being argued on the basis of the early literary data that we have or in this case, that we do not have. Though it may be possible that Jesus had a wife who died early and the tradition simply was not transmitted to us. Who knows? No one can say for certain. Vinnie

05-23-2003, 10:24 PM	#19
Magus55 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 7,204	Roland, No Jesus did not have sexual relations because 1) He is God, and God has no need for that, 2) There is absolutely no mention of Jesus ever getting married or having a significant other, and premarital sex is a sin, and Jesus was sinless - therefore didn't do it.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.