Kinross

This is exactly what Hardy is saying. This movie is opinion not a documentary. Yet it is winning awards all over the place for being a documentary, objective journalistic fact.

Its like calling this a documentary.

Hubble head

Isn't he a hardcore Catholic too? That, for me at least, is a warning sign that I may be listening to someone whose opinions are a by-product shaped the messenger's own imbalanced or selective filtering on how they see the real world.

If he was only a C & E Catholic I would be more persuaded to at least give his rants some thought.

Bookman

Deacon, if you're in agreement that Michael Moore in Bowling for Columbine is loose with the facts and that his use of editing in something that he calls a documentary is deceptive, then there's nothing left to discuss. That's the only assertion that I've made.

I've haven't said that it wasn't good entertainment. If you like that sort of thing, that is.

Bookman

Deacon

It's a fine line, but Bowling for Columbine is not Moore's opinion, it's the sum of his conclusions. Now do those conclusions form an opinion, sure. its' a chicken vs. egg argument.

Deacon

I understand that.

I did cringe a bit when Moore ambushed Dick Clark but again, that wasn't mentioned. And again when Moore left the photo of the little girl on Heston's front stoop. Are these actions a bit theatrical? Yes. Did they actually happen? Of course.

Hardy bitches that it's not a documentary because Moore stages his events. It's not like he's rehearsing it! He walks in with a camera crew largely to catch a large company off guard and embarrass them making them come off hypocritical (one might think that in the 13 years since, these companies would've hired better PR people.) But it's all real.

I think part of what also gets Moore in trouble is that he's a celebrity now and is actually IN his documentaries.

I didn't think it was deceptive.

Novowels

Poisoning the well?

King Rat

Uh! More (Moore) half-truths. My dog can be a lifetime card-carrying member of the NRA for $700, you can too.

I hope he (or you) don't use this flimsy non-data to further his opinions.

Deacon

How is the fact that your dog could be a member of the NRA (which by the way speaks volumes to their discerning membership) make the fact that Moore IS a member of the NRA a half truth? Moore has been a member since he was a teenager, in fact used to be an instructor.

How is this a half truth?!!!

There are hundreds of other things that could be challenged with Michael Moore and you pick this?!

Now THAT is poisoning the well.

King Rat

I picked this because it's easy and stupid. I'll decide later if I feel like attacking the equally easy but more time consuming assertions. I just don't know if I care enough.

Michael Moore is way down on my list of priorities right now.

Cite please.

Deacon

okay, I'm assuming you haven't SEEN the film for starters.

:banghead:

Maybe that's an assumption you can correct me on later. Because in the film Moore states that he is in fact has been a member of the NRA. In fact, that is how he manages to get his interview with Heston. HE SHOWS HIS MEMBERSHIP CARD TO CHUCK HESTON!!!

Moore himself on his website:

Q. Are you really a member of the NRA?
A. Yes. I currently hold a "Life Membership." I was a junior member and won the NRA Marksman Award when I was a teenager (back when the NRA was known as a gun safety and sportsman organization). I went hunting with the neighborhood kids but there were never any guns in our house. After Columbine, I decided that I would run against Charlton Heston for the presidency of the NRA. If elected, my plan was to try to return the NRA to a gun safety organization, instead of its current agenda of gun fanaticism. The rules said that to run for president, you had to be a member for the past five years or buy a lifetime membership for $750. And that's what I did. But after a while I realized this endeavor was going to take too much time, so I decided to focus all my attention on the movie I was making.