FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.

Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Reload this Page Holly and Jessica
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 05:55 AM
Search

 
Page 4 of 5 « First 23 4 5
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-28-2002, 07:59 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The Fatal Shore
Posts: 900
Post
Now, back to the original argument: Is the outcry over these girls mainly due to stupid working-class people? Well, let's see...if we assume this, then I think we should assume that stupid working-class people also includes newspaper and television journalists (after all, it was these people who brought this to national attention in the first place), police officers, tabloid yellow journalists, the reporters that continued to give coverage to the outcry, the girls' families and friends, and various politicians.

I'm glad you brought that up...but I would say most of those, ie. the tabloids and politicians, are the opportunistic people, NOT the stupid or ignorant. They are the people who have something to gain by flaming the fires of mass hysteria...political mileage, paper sales, ratings.

And they are probably the most culpable in the whole scenario. It is they who manipulate the weakness's of the mob.

[ August 28, 2002: Message edited by: Jane Bovary ]</p>
Jane Bovary is offline  
Old 08-28-2002, 08:00 PM   #32
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 420
Post
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark_Chid:
<strong>


The papers that feed the frenzy, the Sun, the News of the World etc are targetted at a certain type of working class readership by journalists who know what sells, whether or not they believe it.

The original point was the hysteria over Holly & Jessica. That exists in the trashy tabloid press, not the Times or the Guardian. this isn't because the JOURNALISTS think differently, its because the people they aim the stories at do.

The thing you have to remember is I AM working class. I grew up in a rented house, my father a bricklayer my mother a school cook. I went to the football at weekends, went to a comprehensive school etc etc. I don't have a middle class up ringing, I'm talking about the worst elements of my own kind, its not snobbery!</strong>
Mark_Chid:

I think I'll end my involvment in this thread here, since it seems I have hijacked it to all hell. If I have in some way offended you, I apologize; this was not my intent. If you wish to continue the discussion of the psychological mentality of the working-classes, I would be happy to start a thread elsewhere. But for now, I'll leave the thread to those who don't want to get into it.
case is offline  
Old 08-28-2002, 08:11 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The Fatal Shore
Posts: 900
Exclamation
Case don't be silly...I don't think you've "hijacked" the thread and I doubt you've offended anyone!
Jane Bovary is offline  
Old 08-28-2002, 08:17 PM   #34
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,358
Post
Case, Jane is right - the discussion is not off-topic at all. IMHO the "working class mob" phenomenon (I agree with Mark on this) is one of the key factors in the "Holly and Jessica" syndrome. But just lurking here for now....
Arrowman is offline  
Old 08-28-2002, 08:23 PM   #35
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,832
Smile
I’d be shattered if a thread I’d opened ever ended up in RRP.
echidna is offline  
Old 08-28-2002, 08:26 PM   #36
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Auc kland, NZ
Posts: 253
Post
Quote:
Originally posted by Jane Bovary:
<strong>Case don't be silly...I don't think you've "hijacked" the thread and I doubt you've offended anyone!</strong>

Yeah - I'm not in the least offended!
Mark_Chid is offline  
Old 08-28-2002, 08:34 PM   #37
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,832
Post
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark_Chid:
<strong>Its an observable truth. You will not be able to find a counter-example. I speak from within the british working class, I know my own culture.</strong>
I mean, middle class people get swept up as well. Youse working class don’t have a mortgage on dumb.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark_Chid:
<strong>The idea of a middle class mob is pretty laughable</strong>
Mark, over here we might have the students which rightly or wrongly attack detention centres. We have greenies protecting forests. We have animal rights protesters. We even occasionally have middle class pro-union protestors (as well as working class of course), all of which, when confronted with police as protestors are in the habit of, make a pretty good impression of a mob.

I’d pose these as mainly middle class sentiments. I don’t have strong feelings on the subject, I’m just curious because it sounds like you’re saying the working class has a mortgage on mob-like behaviour.

They’re not the same media-manipulated hordes, but distinctly mob-like on occasion. There’s an element of our human nature which causes all of us to get caught up in group-think from time to time.
echidna is offline  
Old 08-28-2002, 08:53 PM   #38
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: my mind
Posts: 5,996
Post
Quote:
Originally posted by echidna:
<strong>I’d be shattered if a thread I’d opened ever ended up in RRP.</strong>
It definitely does not belong here, but where? Don't worry I will [not send it to RRP, but maybe in Political or Media and Popular culture?

[ August 28, 2002: Message edited by: 99Percent ]</p>
99Percent is offline  
Old 08-28-2002, 08:56 PM   #39
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Auc kland, NZ
Posts: 253
Post
Quote:
Originally posted by echidna:
<strong>

Mark, over here we might have the students which rightly or wrongly attack detention centres. We have greenies protecting forests. We have animal rights protesters. We even occasionally have middle class pro-union protestors (as well as working class of course), all of which, when confronted with police as protestors are in the habit of, make a pretty good impression of a mob.

I’d pose these as mainly middle class sentiments. I don’t have strong feelings on the subject, I’m just curious because it sounds like you’re saying the working class has a mortgage on mob-like behaviour.

They’re not the same media-manipulated hordes, but distinctly mob-like on occasion. There’s an element of our human nature which causes all of us to get caught up in group-think from time to time.</strong>
Students are a special case, but politically motivated acts aren't really what we're talking about here - I'm talking about the pilgramages to place flowers on the rotting heap of bouquets outside Buck House in 1997, the screaming harridans who pelt police vans with tomatoes because they are carrying 'perverts', the idiots who trashed a pediatrician's house during the pedophile panic of 1999 and the fools who think Holly and Jessica is the greatest tragedy in history. The vast majority of these people are working class and its a peculiarly English thing - I don't see it here in NZ at all.
Mark_Chid is offline  
Old 08-28-2002, 09:14 PM   #40
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,832
Post
Quote:
Originally posted by 99Percent:
<strong>It definitely does not belong here, but where? Don't worry I will [not send it to RRP, but maybe in Political or Media and Popular culture?</strong>
I'd like to think that Media influence on public morality is still OK here.
echidna is offline  
 
Page 4 of 5 « First 23 4 5

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:32 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.