Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vorkosigan · 05-06-2002, 02:33 PM

I'm confused. We don't sound that far apart here. However, your first statements above, unless I took them wrong, seem to indicate otherwise (i.e. that you couldn't accept an early date because it just didn't happen the way Christians say it did...)

We're not far apart. I don't accept early or late dats based on what Christians said prior to the advent of modern scholarship, is all.

Here's the link on Powell, it is quite detailed:
<a href="http://home.att.net/~david.r.ross/Mark/" target="_blank">http://home.att.net/~david.r.ross/Mark/</a>
You have to scroll down to the middle of the page to the "Missing Ending of Mark".

My only ignorance is in not knowing what the people discussing things in that thread did in their spare time to find out who Kim is.

That is all i meant. Me and Rodahi put a ton of effort into tracking him down. We were unable to find anything about him. It got to be one of those problems that sort of takes you over.

Perhaps no one asked the right people. I'm positive there are good scholars who know who and where Kim is and what he does.

Yes, but it may not be New Testament studies

Finally, Kim's views on p46 may eventually come to be the majority scholar view...maybe. If they do, can you accept it or will you then follow the minority view, saying "it did not happen the way Christians say it did"?

Since p46 contains mostly letters of Paul plus Hebrews, all of which I believe are first century, a late first century date of p46 wouldn't bug me in the slightest. It's motives, not dates, that the case of p46 and Kim illuminates.

Hope you enjoy Powell's arguments....

Here's an informal review of his book:
<a href="http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/greek-3/msg00619.html" target="_blank">http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/greek-3/msg00619.html</a>

Note that I am not interested in his other ideas..

Vorkosigan

Haran · 05-06-2002, 05:30 PM

Thanks for the links, Vorkosigan. Really.

I looked briefly at the bib. and didn't see Streeter. I can't remember, but is he mentioned in the text or did you mean someone else?

Haran

Haran · 05-06-2002, 05:43 PM

What ever happened to Rodahi anyway? You know?

Haran

Vorkosigan · 05-06-2002, 07:50 PM

He left us, is all there is to be said.

Vorkosigan

Haran · 05-07-2002, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan:
He left us, is all there is to be said.

Forgive me for saying so, but this is a very mysterious sounding sentence. I hope that he is physically ok, for this left me with the impression that he might not be, though it probably just means that you don't know where he went or don't want to say... Anyway, I hope he's ok, and I'll leave it at that.

Haran

wordsmyth · 05-07-2002, 03:20 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Haran:
There are probably other sites, but <a href="http://greatsite.com/engbibhis/index.html" target="_blank">greatsite.com</a> has a pretty good History of the Bible section.


Thanx Haran, all the links you have given me have been a great help.

Quote:

I would suggest a few books. I will warn you ahead of time that the author is a conservative christian scholar (note the emphasis on scholar). Anyway, though you may not agree with some of his conclusions in the book, if you can look past them there is a goldmine of information about where modern versions of the Bible come from. I have read these books and they are excellent. As a quick aside, Comfort does not subscribe to KJV only and usually explains why in his books...

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/084233484X/qid=1020689850/sr=1-12/ref=sr_1_12/102-5350168-8124115" target="_blank">Essential Guide to Bible Versions</a> (this is probably the information you're after)
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0801020980/qid=1020689882/sr=1-22/ref=sr_1_22/102-5350168-8124115" target="_blank">Early MSS and Modern Translations of the New Testament</a> (contains pictures of some manuscripts and information on several and how they have influenced modern translations)
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0842347356/qid=1020689830/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/102-5350168-8124115" target="_blank">The Origin of the Bible</a>

Hope this info helps as well.

Haran

Thanx again Haran, the book "Essential Guide to Bible Versions" does indeed look like just what I'm looking for.

Haran · 05-07-2002, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wordsmyth:
Thanx again Haran, the book "Essential Guide to Bible Versions" does indeed look like just what I'm looking for.

Good.

Relatively cheap too, huh?

Haran

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05-06-2002, 02:33 PM	#31
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	I'm confused. We don't sound that far apart here. However, your first statements above, unless I took them wrong, seem to indicate otherwise (i.e. that you couldn't accept an early date because it just didn't happen the way Christians say it did...) We're not far apart. I don't accept early or late dats based on what Christians said prior to the advent of modern scholarship, is all. Here's the link on Powell, it is quite detailed: <a href="http://home.att.net/~david.r.ross/Mark/" target="_blank">http://home.att.net/~david.r.ross/Mark/</a> You have to scroll down to the middle of the page to the "Missing Ending of Mark". My only ignorance is in not knowing what the people discussing things in that thread did in their spare time to find out who Kim is. That is all i meant. Me and Rodahi put a ton of effort into tracking him down. We were unable to find anything about him. It got to be one of those problems that sort of takes you over. Perhaps no one asked the right people. I'm positive there are good scholars who know who and where Kim is and what he does. Yes, but it may not be New Testament studies Finally, Kim's views on p46 may eventually come to be the majority scholar view...maybe. If they do, can you accept it or will you then follow the minority view, saying "it did not happen the way Christians say it did"? Since p46 contains mostly letters of Paul plus Hebrews, all of which I believe are first century, a late first century date of p46 wouldn't bug me in the slightest. It's motives, not dates, that the case of p46 and Kim illuminates. Hope you enjoy Powell's arguments.... Here's an informal review of his book: <a href="http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/greek-3/msg00619.html" target="_blank">http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/greek-3/msg00619.html</a> Note that I am not interested in his other ideas.. Vorkosigan

05-06-2002, 05:30 PM	#32
Haran Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 1,490	Thanks for the links, Vorkosigan. Really. I looked briefly at the bib. and didn't see Streeter. I can't remember, but is he mentioned in the text or did you mean someone else? Haran

05-06-2002, 05:43 PM	#33
Haran Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 1,490	What ever happened to Rodahi anyway? You know? Haran

05-06-2002, 07:50 PM	#34
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	He left us, is all there is to be said. Vorkosigan

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