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Old 05-22-2003, 03:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beetle
I never thought I'd see the day when ex-klansman, "never met a pork bill he didn't like" Robert Byrd would attain the status of America's conscience. I am truly depressed.
The fact that someone like Byrd can go through a transformation is just a little proof that there is hope for mankind.
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Old 05-22-2003, 04:07 PM   #12
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I had to e-mail him for that one. Never thought I'd be a Byrd fan either, but he's really in there swinging lately. Seeing as how he's about the only one not playing Follow the Leader, let's hope the old man has a lot more years in him.
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Old 05-22-2003, 05:20 PM   #13
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Is there any wonder that the real motives of the U.S. government are the subject of worldwide speculation and mistrust?
Indeed. Some people appear to need a hand-autographed letter from Bush himself declaring his nefarious plans before they will even consider it. And even then they'll probably find an excuse. Anything to avoid dealing with the possibility that their president -- their choice for president -- has developed serious problems.

I have a message for those people.

It's not about you!

Try to get past it. Just try. Please. C'mon. You can do it. I know you can. Just pretend for a few minutes each morning in front of the mirror. You can work your way up slowly. I promise I won't make it difficult for you afterwards.
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:03 PM   #14
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I hate to rain on anybody's parade but Byrd is truly the king of pork.

The reason he is speaking out against the president is only to get leverage so that he can get some mooore pork!

He did the same damm thing with the Clinton scandal. He does it over and over again. If you're from West Virginia and have been paying attention it gets pretty embarrassing after a while.

So I don't know about Feingold, but Byrd is only doing this so he can get another FBI or NASA center in WV.

Welcome to American politics people.
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zar

...
... Anything to avoid dealing with the possibility that their president -- their choice for president -- has developed serious problems.
...
Today's The San Diego Union Tribune newspaper, has these excerpts from the article 'CIA conducting review of prewar reports on Iraq':

"The failure of U.S. forces to find either conclusive evidence of Iraq's ties to al-Qaeda or unconventional weapons has added urgency to the study's outcome.

The review, which has the support of some analysts and officials who have said the intelligence on Iraq was politicized,..., will focus on a few sensitive issues, including whether the United States overstated the threat posed by Iraq's program..."

and

"Several intelligence officials said several CIA analysts have quietly complained that senior Defense Department officials and other Bush administration officials sought to pressure them to produce reports that supported the administration's position on Iraq."

Remember that the forgery about Nigeria helping Iraq with the Iraqi nuclear program, triggered the vote for U.S. war against Iraq, in the U.S. Congress.

Now, I hope that the writer of this article coming from the New York Times News Service, who states many things that became obvious to me in the last three months, doesn't get fired.

Meanwhile, naive Americans give the crook Bush thumbs up in polls.
See the numbers of Americans in the polls, supporting Bush.
Like the naive taxi driver who gives me rides and is too busy to scrap a living in order to be sharp enough about the news, when he tells me that not finding Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq is "...too early.".

A few American people, like the today's driver with the logos on his car "There is a terrorist behind every Bush" and "Regime change begins at home", did uncover Bush's scam, though:

Bush plays an unneccessary and costly (in lives, money and consequences) international war, while neglecting the American citizens.
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Old 05-22-2003, 07:25 PM   #16
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I talked about the whole Iraq situation with a colleague of mine a few months back (he's a US citizen, I am British). He adamantly defended the Bush administrations war preparations, and assured me that the US public would not stand for it should WMD not be found.

Where is the outrage, people?
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Old 05-22-2003, 10:57 PM   #17
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There is outrage, but somehow I think the Bush Administration has more access to broadcast its spin than anyone else does in the U.S.A. Plus, I wouldn't underestimate the denial. I think we have to go several rungs lower on the ladder before many who cheered Bush on will even contemplate changing their mind.

Some people believe in the neocon mentality so fervently, they almost would see it as a victory of American righteous power to impose its will even IF everything they said is exposed as a lie. You see, it matters as little to them as pious frauds mean to certain religious types. Use the lie when you can, but if you can't, just force the issue anyway. Really nothing at all is out of bounds to further their great causes.

As Leo Strauss says, the only natural right is for the powerful to rule the weak. End of story.

That, my friends, is the real danger we face. It is not mere ignorance, it is willful nihilism.
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Old 05-22-2003, 10:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zar
......

That, my friends, is the real danger we face. It is not mere ignorance, it is willful nihilism.
Absolutely correct.
Well-said.
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Old 05-22-2003, 11:51 PM   #19
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An example of the "pious fraud" is explained very well here:

"America's favorite conspiracy theory: the moral argument"
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Old 05-23-2003, 08:04 AM   #20
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I happened to catch this speech live on C-SPAN the other day. It was given during the submission of a bipartisan amendment (to the budget) that would put a so-called "fence" around funds linked to the development of a "usable" nuclear "bunker buster." Apparently, they are continuing to fund research for said weapon, but the sponsors insist that congress will have control of the development stage, and that the payload they have in mind would actually be that of a conventional weapon and not the nuke. (Do I believe that they can actually oversee this, though? not really) Anyhow, on to the point...

What I thought was incredibly amusing was how the sponsors of the amendment were busy commending one another and speaking about how well-respected and distinguished Senator Byrd is...yadda yadda...and then Byrd continued on to deliver this 'bomb shell" I almost had to laugh. I was pleased that another person in the public eye has finally stood up and questioned the invasion of Iraq, in strong, pointed terms, but at the same time I felt really frustrated. Where was this speech two or three months ago?! :banghead: Perhaps it's due to the fact that it's getting safer to ridicule without suffering politically by being labelled as 'unpatriotic'?

Continuing on...A Texan Republican was the next to deliver an address. She didn't even acknowledge Byrd or his speech and was quite abrupt. Instead, she immediately spoke about (of course) the bravery of the troops and how they deserve the pay raises that are present in the Bill, and how the forces have been finding numerous mass graves by the oppressive Saddam Hussein. So, yes, the Republicans will ride that ever-shifting wave in order to justify the invasion of Iraq, while continuing to ignore direct questions regarding the false assertations made by GWB of the "link" to bin Laden and the non-existent WMD's. UGH!! Does no one have to answer for this???

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