Amos

The story of Abraham was an allegory and it is insane to think otherwise.

long winded fool

Why would a true Christian ever need take someone else's life? While I agree this mentality may be impractical when everyone else assumes every man for himself, I think there is something far more wrong with the "kill or be killed" mentality. Jesus had this turn the other cheek mentality. Gandhi had it too. I think Mother Teresa had this mentality. The only reason to kill in self defense or defense of another is fear and basic instincts. While I'm not in control of my instincts enough to know for sure that I wouldn't take the life of someone who was threatening mine or my loved one's, I can say that, here at my computer, I would rather be murdered than be a murderer. If everyone had this mentality, there would be no murder. Since not everyone has this mentality, is it logical for everyone to abandon it to save their own skins? Jesus was willing to die for this mentality if the scriptures are to be believed. Didn't Gandhi say, "You must be the change you want to see in the world?" While people may have a problem with this mentality and spend the better portion of their brainpower constructing defenses and preparing for their neighbor's imminent attack, it is courageous to always assume goodness in others, turn the other cheek, and not return sin for sin. Jesus never said following the golden rule was painless. But ironically, if everyone followed the golden rule there would be much less pain in the world than if everyone tried to avoid pain at whatever the cost. The paradox of the martyr. His or her pain is our salvation.

NightWatchman

Proverbs 1524
a word to the wise you may depart from HELL beneath.

Amos how come these people dont understand the bible as an allegory
come on people,
people dont live in fish, axe heads dont float on water, and burning bushes dont talk, not when youre sober anyway.

I will open my mouth in a parable and utter dark sayings of old
dont be a minister of the letter
all things which are an allegory
Unless you hate your mother and father, brother and sister you cannot follow me. said jesus.

nightwatchman

Theli

braces_for_impact...
You are you.
I would think that the Christian belief is that you are free to do what you want with your afterlife. Accept Jesus and you go to heaven, sin and you go to hell. This is supposed to be the choice that every person is free to make. Or are you saying that your "victim" wants to go to hell? Is that why he was "free of sin"?

Well, this definately does not hold. If he wanted everyone to go to heaven then you would to, regardless of your killingspree.

Is that the morality they preach? What happened to helping people? Saving people from damnation, and all that?
And, on another note... you can stop a person from sinning by killing him. I would think that's the most effective way.

Yes, ofcourse... But who does sinning hurt except for yourself? You are the one paying for it. And killing has by Christianity been justified for far less noble causes.


Do you not sin just for the sake of not sinning, or is there actually some deeper meaning to it?

Amos

Maybe they all have too much invested in the literal interpretation and are reluctant to surrender that effort.

The bible is all metaphor unless otherwise stated. One such place is Jn.6:55 where it says that "my body is real food and my blood is real drink." The word "real" indicates that this is not allegory and this it the very place that literalist insist is allegory. This confusion existed already 2000 years ago (Jn.6:60; "how can anyone take this seriously [they murmered and left]," and so nothing has changed even after having fought a great number of wars to defend this truth.

long winded fool

Free of sin? No one is free of sin. I'm afraid I'm unclear on this rebuttal.

Why would He force someone to go to heaven against their will? This is not the Christian God. Let me rephrase, He wants everyone to go to heaven, but not badly enough to eliminate free will and force everyone into heaven.

How can you save both yourself and another from damnation by killing him? I meant to say, "If you can't stop a person from sinning without sinning yourself, shake the dust from your sandals..."

Sinning hurts no one but yourself. It is a sin to hurt yourself. Genocide has been justified with the theory of evolution. This has nothing to do with evolution itself.

Of course you sin just for the sake of sinning. You don't sin in order to defy God's will, you sin because you have instincts. It is God's will that we not allow our instincts to rule over our reason.

BadBadBad

We know a woman in Houston that dealt with this. Her name was Andrea Yates. She killed all five of her children.

Yates told psychiatrists she drowned the children because they were not "righteous" and would burn in hell if she did not take their lives while they were still innocent.

Read her confession and weep:


Confession of Andrea Yates

Rhea

But you know, if you really REALLY believe Christianity, then this is not a terribly big deal. She's right, they're in heaven, yucking it up with the angels, no earthly suffering any more. ANd when she gets her meds straightened out and realizes that she is genuinely repentant, she'll earn her spot next to them.

It's a cause for celebration, really.

They will never face hell. Isn't that terrific? She must be so happy!

But wait, how will she be repentant if she's not sorry they're dead, only sorry that she committed murder... Hmmm. Oh yeah, Christian forgiveness doesn't actually require regret at teh consequences of your actions, only the actions themselves.

Kewl.

Back to the celebration!

BadBadBad

I forgot to ask the question. Was Andrea Yates morally right? She believed she was possessed by the devil. Who is to say she wasn't? She had visions. Satan talked to her. Well now, wait, maybe it was actually God. Maybe God only intended that she have the courage and commitment to kill her children. You know just another sicko God test. Was it Satan, was it God, was it just a halucination, how could she tell? Was she morally right?