Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jobar · 01-11-2003, 08:55 PM

irichc:
So 'causes' are as artificial as reason is.

Ah, good, I'm glad you understand that. Now, try substituting 'First Cause' for 'causes'.

irichc · 01-11-2003, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jobar
Now, try substituting 'First Cause' for 'causes'.

"First cause", when referred to God, is not a cause, but the AGENT of it. We call God "first cause" in a metonymical way. Causes are in time, not God; causes are limited by other previous causes, not God.

Daniel.

Philosoft · 01-11-2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irichc
Causes are in time, not God; causes are limited by other previous causes, not God.

Um, how? Why?

Jobar · 01-12-2003, 08:42 AM

And to add to Philosoft's questions, where does your claimed knowledge of things you admit are outside spacetime come from? Remember that you are addressing skeptics, and faith or personal revelation are meaningless to us.

irichc · 01-12-2003, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jobar
And to add to Philosoft's questions, where does your claimed knowledge of things you admit are outside spacetime come from? Remember that you are addressing skeptics, and faith or personal revelation are meaningless to us.

Theology has two main sources, besides revelation: effects in the world and the nature of our soul.

Daniel.

Graeme · 01-12-2003, 10:30 AM

What is an 'atomist', and how can I contact their regulatory organization to complain?

Biff the unclean · 01-12-2003, 10:33 AM

Effects in the world are all adequately explained by science without a single appeal to the supernatural.

As for souls...you don't actually have one. The soul was a pre-science attempt at explaining the mind, and was incorrect. The mind is the functioning of the brain -- a completely physical and all too mortal organ.

irichc · 01-12-2003, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
As for souls...you don't actually have one. The soul was a pre-science attempt at explaining the mind, and was incorrect. The mind is the functioning of the brain -- a completely physical and all too mortal organ.

I send you to my post "Analogical demonstration of free will", which proves that determinists are essentialy wrong.

Daniel.

Biff the unclean · 01-12-2003, 04:48 PM

Been there, read that.
I'm pleased to see that SRB isn't an American either (quote SRB: what is written above is total drivel.)
You prove nothing about souls existing there.

Philosoft · 01-12-2003, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irichc
Theology has two main sources, besides revelation:

Whose revelation? Yours? Benny Hinn's?

Quote:

effects in the world and the nature of our soul.

First, "effects in the world" are almost always explicable by a single, natural explanation. Those that tend to defy natural explanation (whatever they may be) are explicable by a multitude of supernatural explanations. Second, what does the "nature of our soul" have to do with evidence of God's timelessness?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-11-2003, 08:55 PM	#11
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	irichc: So 'causes' are as artificial as reason is. Ah, good, I'm glad you understand that. Now, try substituting 'First Cause' for 'causes'.

01-12-2003, 08:42 AM	#14
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	And to add to Philosoft's questions, where does your claimed knowledge of things you admit are outside spacetime come from? Remember that you are addressing skeptics, and faith or personal revelation are meaningless to us.

01-12-2003, 10:30 AM	#16
Graeme Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 5,447	What is an 'atomist', and how can I contact their regulatory organization to complain?

01-12-2003, 10:33 AM	#17
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Effects in the world are all adequately explained by science without a single appeal to the supernatural. As for souls...you don't actually have one. The soul was a pre-science attempt at explaining the mind, and was incorrect. The mind is the functioning of the brain -- a completely physical and all too mortal organ.

01-12-2003, 04:48 PM	#19
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Been there, read that. I'm pleased to see that SRB isn't an American either (quote SRB: what is written above is total drivel.) You prove nothing about souls existing there.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.