Arken

Sorry to go off on a tangent here but... what horrors?

Volker.Doormann

Where do you know this? Where do you know this? See. Just because a living person claims that something has no reason to believe in, why should people hear on this living person and believe on his claims to have the knowledge about that is true, that Millions of people believe that a perfectly good being has ordered the slaughter of children, among many other horrendous things?

Volker

Heathen Dawn

Predation. Parasitism. Ichneumon wasps. Birth defects. Harlequin foetuses. Just scratching the surface.

Pyrrho

And do you really think that that is likely to be the result of someone considering these matters? (The most likely thing is for them to not adequately consider such things, but if they do, they are extremely unlikely to come to the conclusion that you seem to imagine.)



That is fine, if it works. But it is good for people to think about how they could tell if a voice they heard really was a voice from God, instead of:

1) Someone else, such as Satan, and
2) A brain malfunction.

And when one is only hearing about someone else supposedly hearing a voice, in addition to those two possibilities, there is a third:

3) The person who claimed to hear a voice is simply lying.

And when you don't even hear it from the person who originally supposedly heard the voice, there is yet a fourth option:

4) The people who reported the story are lying.

(The difference between 3 and 4 is this: With 3, the person who supposedly heard the voice is lying, but with 4, the person writing the story is just writing fiction, perhaps with a couple of true statements thrown in to fool people. In other words, I could write a book, in which I claim that there are people who God has spoken with (lie 4), or instead I could start telling people that God is speaking with me (lie 3), and hope to get others to believe, and write my story.)

Nothing could possibly be more irrational than belief in the stories in the Bible, as they are expressed in the Bible. We have people who claim that God spoke with them. Often, this occurs in dreams, so there is no kind of verification from others, or one is alone, such as Moses being alone to get the 10 commandments, and he comes back, claiming that he has seen a burning bush, and claiming that God carved the tablets, rather than himself. But, of course, we have no way of knowing whether Moses (even if he really existed) ever made such claims, or whether someone just made up a story about him. To continue with this example, it could be that Moses got the tablets from God, or someone else such as Satan who Moses mistook for God, or he could have carved them himself (he was alone long enough; this would be lie 3), or it could be that the whole story is just made up by others, and Moses never claimed anything about any stone tablets (lie 4).

The point that I have been getting at in this thread is that even if every person telling the story is honest, and truly believes what they say (so neither lie 3 or 4 is occurring), we still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking to them, instead of someone pretending to be God. (And, of course, they could also simply have been hallucinating.)

Volker.Doormann

Pyrrho claims to know that: �We (I) still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking ��
Pyrrho claims to know that: �Satan wrote the Bible, not God.�
Pyrrho claims to know that: �Christians are really all worshiping Satan.�
Phrrho claims to know that: �So Christians, who worship such an evil being, can expect to roast in Hell for eternity.�
Pyrrho claims to know that: �We (I) still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking ��

Jesus claims: � �. Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. � For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? �



Poll:

[ ]I believe that Jesus in the Bible
[ ]I led me lead from the temptations of Pyrrho
[ ]Don't know, what you talk obout.

Volker.Doormann

" 'Another simple form of insanity is to accept that something called "reality" exists but no one can know anything about it.'

This is an old form of insanity dating back as far as the ancient Greeks. No one has been able to completely stamp out this form of insanity, so it's still around.

This form of insanity, which is generally called Universal Skepticism, seems to have appeared first in a man by the name of Pyrrho of Elis who was born around 360 B.C. and died around 270 B.C. He proclaimed that we cannot know the nature of things, that is, "reality." Our senses tell us how things appear, not what they are, and we cannot go beyond our sensations.

Pyrrho believed that we cannot tell whether a sensation is a true copy of a real object even if it is the source of our "knowledge." Therefore, according to him, what we cannot know should compel us to suspend judgment, to resign ourselves to not knowing anything called "reality." Furthermore, Pyrrho held that in every argument both sides can be proved, which probably makes him the first true politician on the planet. Had he been fortunate enough to be born in America, Pyrrho would make a great candidate for Congress."

(Jonathan Dolhenty)

Doctor X

Pyrro:

Just put him on "ignore"--it is what he does to people who challenge him on astrology.

Sauce for the goose. . . .

--J.D.

Pyrrho

I think you need to learn the difference between metaphoric expressions and literal claims.

Volker.Doormann

This is a forum discussing religiuos themes. You have started a thread with the titel:"Satan wrote the Bibel, not God." Neither is the bible a metapher, nor God, nor Satan. If you claim, that your assertion is a metapher, then please show, for what it is a metapher.

Satan? I think not. Your claim is precise. You can argue there are terrible stories in the bible, but terribel stories you can read all day in news. Hardly you can argue, that the bible myths must taken as historic truth. But it is your claim, to argue on this exact.
If you know, that the myths are myths, and no history, then argue on this. These wonderful stories about the evil and good of human beings trying to find the truth, what is called 'Israel' in that myths, what means 'struggeling with God' to find the truth as you, are showing, that it is a hard way to escape from this living in darkness (metapher) claimed as not changed into light (metapher) meaning knowledge (no metapher) by skeptics.

In the same way it is not a metapher to claim: �We (I) still have no way of knowing that it really was God speaking ��. If you claim to have knowledge, that we still have no way of knowing etc. it is a claim and not a Metapher, and it is your (contradictional) claim.

Please speak claer and in your own words, if you would like to be understood in your intension about the authorship of the bible, and please avoid metaphers.

Volker

Pyrrho

To speak plainly, I do not believe that Satan wrote the Bible. However, it is as sensible�no, more sensible�to believe that Satan wrote the Bible than to believe that God wrote it. The reasons why a good being could not have written it are explained in the opening post.

The point of this thread was to try to get Christians to think about their beliefs regarding the Bible and God.