Starboy

GD Jesus, as long as you are at it, could you institute an effective behavior modification program rather than the very lame heaven and hell and ten commandments.

Starboy

GeoTheo

Dave, could you please answer the question I asked you re"
Hatred and dislike" ?
Thanks
Ted

wildernesse

Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't need forgiveness--it depends on him and his choices, really. He's still surrounded by God's love and mine.

This is my way of thinking: Say you make a mistake that hurts yourself or others. God still loves you. But I think that when you put yourself ahead of others in a harmful way, that you are closing off and locking doors to the outside world--including the doors that let love in. When you realize the harm that has been done, you start unlocking those doors, and I believe that God will always open that door once you unlock it. I don't think that there's just one door to close, but infinite numbers of them. And when one is closed, love is still pouring in the others.

I think that when people begin to search their "hearts" for actions that have been wrong, and they realize what they've done, that it's hard on them. I think that he grants us forgiveness because we ask for it, not because it is required.

I think that Jesus taught us how to live so that we don't close off so many doors to God's love. Many of these teachings (like the Golden Rule) are found in other religions and belief systems and serve the same purpose in my mind.

Again, I don't know what happens when we die and if there's anything to be saved from, other than ourselves. I don't believe that God eternally damns anyone for their mistakes or circumstances. I believe that any condemnation we feel/experience is self-inflicted and mediated by God's love.

--tibac

Godless Dave

Working on it....

I guess by hatred I mean that when you hate someone, you wish them harm, or at best do not accord them the same respect, dignity, and rights that you do to other humans.

Here's one of dictionary.com's definitions:

Biff the unclean

tibac: This is my way of thinking… I think that when you put yourself ahead of others in a harmful way, that you are closing off and locking doors to the outside world--including the doors that let love in.
In my way of thinking this is exactly what Christians are doing. There is no God, no fall, people are not sinners.

When you realize the harm that has been done, you start unlocking those doors, and I believe that God will always open that door once you unlock it. I don't think that there's just one door to close, but infinite numbers of them. And when one is closed, love is still pouring in the others.
But the slamming of the doors is done solely by people. There are no Gods to slam any doors.
When you say that you are sure that God will forgive your husband you slam a small door right in his face. You cloak it in words of love and mercy and forgiveness and never realize that you are condemning. The only reason he could possibly need mercy and forgiveness is if he is guilty of something wrong. All he is guilty of is not being a member of your exclusive little club.

I think that when people begin to search their "hearts" for actions that have been wrong, and they realize what they've done, that it's hard on them. I think that he grants us forgiveness because we ask for it, not because it is required.
This is the dreadful part. It is you and not some fantasy of a deity who thinks that these people need to be forgiven.

GeoTheo

Do you think that Christians generally mean non-Christians harm?
Or do you just think they don't respect non-Christians or think they have any rights or dignity?

Biff the unclean

Originally posted by Godless Dave
If I were Jesus I would have written my teachings down myself instead of relying on a power-mad closeted gay man named Paul to do it for me.

Seems to me that if I were God and I had an important message to get to everyone on Earth and being God I wasn't limited by those pesky laws of physics I would have picked a different way than telling the Jews.

It's nice that they wrote it down, but hardly anybody could read in those days. And of those who could read only the most minute fraction could read the language of this one tribe of Semites in the lower right hand corner of the Roman Empire. And there was no real publishing industry that could handle a mass publication. And even if there were there was no technological way to get the book distributed all around the world. In fact it would be almost fifteen hundred years before they even knew that there was an all around the world and another three or four hundred years before they could get everywhere. Then there's still the problem about so few people understanding the original messages language. Add to that it's written so ambiguously that there are thousands of different sects that start up because even though everyone is very sincere about wanting to know what this important message means they can't agree. And they can't agree so vehemently that sometimes they kill each other over what the message says.

Sure is a funny way for a perfect being to communicate with his audience.

beth

I think that Christianity as a whole veiws the non-saved and heretical(many denominations and sects have veiws on other denominations) as inferrior to themselves. They think that they are the ones with the message and that we are the lost. I also think that many Christians see all adversaties as attacks from satan and the world and they delight in the knoweledge that we will one day be judged and burn for our wickedness. They see that all their temptations are brought on by the non-believers and see us as a blight to their perfect little godly world. I do understand that there are some Christians who do not fit into this category, but the majority of Christianity does.

GeoTheo

So basically, Christians are bigots because We think we are right about God and that others who don't agree with us are therefore wrong. So the only way to avoid being a bigot in your eyes is to never make any positive claims.

GeoTheo

So how does one avoid being a bigot? Remain agnostic on absolutely all matters to avoid disagreement with anyone?