eldar1011

Heard this story on my local FOX affiliate this morning. Same details, but at the end of the story, the newscaster reports:

"A bible was found on the ground by the site of the accident"

Whuh?

It wasn't even part of the report segment, just some comment added by the desk jockey.

And this is why this story bothers me.

I understand Aime's point, there's no great harm in this one individual believing in divine intervention. However, I believe there is tremendous harm in how this story is presented in the news.

At no point does anyone point out that there was nothing miraculous here. Improbable, perhaps, but far from miraculous. Yet, his belief is passed along as part of the story, unquestioned. Instead, post-report editorial comments are made that simply reinforce this man's belief.

If this yokel attributed his "miracle" to something other than God, then the true miracle would be if it went unquestioned. If he attributed it to a timely intervention by a Starfleet Science observation team and their trusty transporter...he'd be held up for ridicule.

But that's not what happens here. Instead, it's reported as near-fact. And all across the country, as this story is reported, there's a slight rise in the self-righteousness of believers as yet another miracle is "confirmed".

As for me, I feel that much more excluded from mainstream society.

Azathoth

I'm glad you feel that way Aime.However,if you don't mind,I have a couple of questions.

In the story posted by Athiest_in_Foxhole,the driver lived.He attributes this to God.

In the story I posted,a preson in nearly the same situation died.Which one was God's work?

Interestingly enough,in the one I found,the guy was a theist,and he had previously had cancer,his recovery from which was probably seen as an act of God by his religious parents.

Now although the thought of God saving him was doubtless a warm and fuzzy thing to the powerline guy,what do you think that the parents,and friends,of the second guy were thinking?


To save you the trouble of clicking,Here's part of the article:

The accident scene indicates Bradford fell asleep at the wheel, left the road, overcorrected and flipped the 1987 red Chevrolet Blazer a few miles south of LaFayette on U.S. 27, Stultz said. Investigators found no sign of drug or alcohol use and do not believe speed was a factor in the accident.

Stultz said Bradford, a cancer survivor, was not wearing his seatbelt and was ejected from the vehicle.

Bradford was a member of LaFayette First Baptist Church and a sophomore at Trion High School where he was on the football, baseball and wrestling teams.

Amie

hmmm I have never really been in that situation. I suppose if I was helping someone and they thanked some guy walking by I would think it would kind of odd indeed...
yes I don't find it offensive at all, but I acknowledge what you are saying here. I could see someone being offended if he made a statement like "God did it, no one else helped, screw the rescue workers, it was all God" but I think by him making the statement that he felt God was in control does not take away from the men and women who came to his aid. I understand your position though.
I guess i just dont understand why someone would find it offensive if he believed in something that someone else did not. i don't really care if someone worships a seal and thanks a seal for all the great things and lucky breaks they have. If they are happy and thats what they feel they need to do then so be it...more power to them...
you're right, either way we just don't know...
I agree its believed, not necessarily correct.

Amie

Hi Azathoth
I see your point but I dont always understand why things happen as they do. It is my belief that things happen for reaons but I don't always know those reasons, someday I hope to. Some things make no sense to me when believing God is in control there is far too much suffering in the world and I just don't have any answers to that because I certainly don't feel that suffering builds character...
They were probably in shock. They probably asked a lot of "why's" and they may have felt anger at God.
poor kid, I think the hardest thing for me when I was a paramedic was when the children and teens were killed. During those times none of it made any sense, it still doesn't. However I do think we are all part of a bigger picture.

brighid

I guess offense being taken will depend on the perspective of the person taking offense and his/her life experiences. In this case I can see how � let�s say one of the rescue workers would take offense to God controlling the situation. This rescuer could be a theist of another sort, or an atheist but he/she does not share the same Judeo-Christian God belief as the man he/she rescued. After literally risking his/her own life and limb in what I consider a very noble attempt to rescue someone from danger his/her efforts are almost trivialized by stating that this man�s personal God somehow intervened.

I think it is easier to find less or no offense in more trivial situations then those resulting in the potential loss of life such as in this case. However, I think the offense (at least for me) comes into play upon deeper examination of the full implications of these sorts of �god did it� statements. These sorts of instances were huge stumbling blocks for me when I was a believer as you are. The deeper examination of these sorts of statements, and the oft given cookie cutter explanation of being unable to know God�s will didn�t sit well with me logically or emotionally.

Why should a man, who through his own stupidity, be rescued from his own death by the intervention of this God while millions suffer and die in much more heinous ways every day? This then leads one to examine a lot more about God, how he/she/it/they might actually be acting in the world and contrasting that with what we are told God is: all loving, perfectly good, benevolent, just, compassionate, merciful, and all powerful. If God really is all that He is alleged to be saving the life a this man by intervening, while allowing another (more worthy and not so stupid) person die logically means the attributes given to God either are not true, He doesn�t exist � and a few other things that don�t support the conclusion that God is what He is claimed to be.

The statement, standing on it�s own two feet isn�t entirely offensive. What it implies in respect to God, etc. is very offensive. I hope that makes more sense as to what is going on in the mind of (at least) this non-believer.

Godless Dave

I'm not offended by statements like that. I just think they show the stupidity of the utterer. And stupidity is harmful, and can be contagious.

Amie

Thanks brighid

stupidity because it does not conform to what you believe? his saying he felt God was in control is a harmless statement in and of itself.

Shadowy Man

That may be true, Amie, but what I think most of the atheists here will say is that there is harm in the fact that his statement further promotes belief in theism. I think many here see the belief in theism as harmful, i.e. relinquishing personal responsibility, forgoing logic and reason, impeding scientific progress, etc. This is what some see as the dangers of theism. Taken in that context, you can see why some atheists would be bothered by the man saying that God helped him out, when, in fact, there is no evidence to suggest that a god did help him out in any way, as everything described could have happened without the influence of any supernatural forces.

Azathoth

If you don't always understand why things happen the way they do,then why attribute the hand of God to it?Why,exactly,do you think that things happen for reasons?

As far as my statement about God being insane,wouldn't that be as good an explanation to you,about why things happen,if you believe in a God?

Would,possibly a better explanation be,that God has no part in saving or killing people?It does avoid quite a bit of rationalizing.

Godless Dave

Not stupid because his beliefs are different than mine. Stupid because of this:

Maybe he isn't doing any harm. But he still deserves to be made fun of.