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07-27-2003, 12:50 AM | #181 | |
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boneyard bill,
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07-27-2003, 12:55 AM | #182 | |
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Spacer1 writes:
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Certainly, had the AI people who tried to reduce sentience to information processing succeeded, that would have produced a reductive explanation. The problem with that as it turned out, is that information processing itself is an observer-related concept so the whole project really wasn't thought out as well as they had assumed. Philosophically, it was a mish-mash. And if you can't work out the philosophical problems, you're going to have an even harder time working out the technical ones. |
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07-27-2003, 01:03 AM | #183 | |
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boneyard bill,
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07-27-2003, 01:08 AM | #184 | |
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Spacer1 writes:
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However, since materialists try (usually not very successfully) to avoid mental language; the identity theorists use the term "first person report" instead of subjective experience, and the use the term "first person report" instead brain processes. The two reports are said to be reporting the same event even tough the reports are different. But the two reports are equal in their epistemological status. So the two reports are equally reporting the same ontology i.e. brain processes and sentient experience are equally a part of the event. If you try deny the ontological implications you're left with the ludicrous claim that two different reports are identical. |
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07-27-2003, 01:16 AM | #185 | ||
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Adrian Selby writes:
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Sorry, but I haven't been able to work things out the way ex-creationist explained. Perhaps I am missing something but I can't make it work. |
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07-27-2003, 01:33 AM | #186 | ||||
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Adrian Selby writes:
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I think that the senses are involved in self-awareness, but I don't think self-awareness is involved in the senses. The senses are a pre-condition of self-awareness. Not the other way around. |
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07-27-2003, 01:34 AM | #187 | |
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------------ are you incorrigibly analytic? |
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07-27-2003, 01:43 AM | #188 | |||
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Adrian Selby writes:
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This discussion began as a discussion of the identity theory. My only claim here is that the identity theory is a form of property dualism which the materialists have tried to present as a kind of "non-reductive" explanation for sentient experience. I claim that the failure to reduce amounts to a failure to be materialism. For some reason, you object to your ideas being called property dualism. |
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07-27-2003, 01:53 AM | #189 | |
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Adrian Selby writes:
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When it comes to interpreting that data, however, I think it is a great error to presuppose a materialist interpretation and I think that's what happens in much of the research. Of course these scientists aren't reading these boards, but they are reading journals and some of those journals have these arguments as they are discussed by the various philosophers of mind in academia. I hope that we might be reaching some students who will one day be neuro-scientists but even that may be a bit optimistic. I have used the terms "5 senses" and "sentient experience" synomously in this thread. This is probably not quite accurate. It is likely that sentient expereince involves a certain amount of interpretation of the inputs from the senses. That, however, is not relevant to what we are discussing. |
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07-27-2003, 02:04 AM | #190 | ||
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