Muad'Dib

Are you claiming that no one who makes claims that favor astrology (e.g., newspaper astrology columns) make those claims on a fallacious and superstitious basis? I.e., is all astrology right, or do you have to "do" it in a particular way?

If I'm reading you correctly, you claim that astrology is integral to Judaism and the reason this isn't clear to everyone is because the Jews covered it up. Regardless of the accuracy of this claim, do you think Jewish astrological methods are better (or equal to) historically Chinese or Indian or Arabic astrological methods? If so, why? What's the proper methodology to use?

Forgive an ignorant question, but you seem to be the one to ask: what is there to know about astrology? Are all astrologers right, or are some would-be astrologers misguided? If the latter, what do you say is the correct astrology?

I apologize if you deal with this on your webpage, but unfortunately I can't read German.

cydonia

I was having fun with this thread, I don't believe in astrology. I like critical thinking as well. A goofy thread is good for you!

I know astrology can be a "shot in the dark", I guess I was just a little surprised at how accurate I perceived this page long entry on my birthdate to be.

Sometimes I have to step back and question, "Do I believe there is another dimension/power/god thing/whatever?" The answer is no, but I also don't want to feel like I'm dismissing everything out of hand.

When I was a new ager, I would have clung to this as proof I was important somehow, I just think it's interesting how fast I automatically reject this stuff now when I would have absorbed it before.

Arken

I remember not too long ago seeing a TV program where a class full of students were given what they were told were their astrological charts drawn up based on their birth days. Over half of them, in my memory, said that the charts were remarkably accurate. It turned out at the end that all of the charts were exactly the same.

Volker.Doormann

No. The important point is, that he, who is able to interpret the astrological signs correct, can match this with a person who is born on a known time and location. That shit is made with astrology is not the point. No. The time, that Jews have done astrology is gone for a long time. There is a claim in Judaism: "'Ein Mazal Le Yisrael' which means: 'Israel is not affected by the zodiac (Mazzaroth)'. But - and this is important - it is said, that if Israel will leave the spiritual laws (causality/Karma) from the zodiac, Israel will fall back under the laws of the Mazzaroth (zodiac). This means in short, that all Jews of imperfection in this world are under the law of the zodiac, only them, who are perfect (all Karma solved) are free from this causality.

In the OT there is spoken from Balaam - an astrologer - who was called to interpret the twelve zodiac signs on the sky, but this situation was modified. Numbers 24:1 "And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, as at other times, to seek for enchantments, but he set his face toward the wilderness ('very accurate descrition'). And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding [in his tents] according to their tribes .. " Why must they call an astrologer to interpretate something, for what one must lift the eyes to see a plot of four times three 'objects' aligned to the four directions of the sky? (No one believes in the historic logistic of this plot).

Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

"The zodiac is first mentioned in Jewish sources in Sefer Yezirah (the earliest extant Hebrew text of systematic, speculative thought, with discussions of a distinctively mystical nature; written sometime between the 3rd and 6th centuries), where the names given to the 12 signs are direct Hebrew translations of the Latin names. A later publication, the Yalkut Shimoni (best known and most comprehensive anthology of midrashim, dating
somewhere around the 12th-13th century) associates the 12 signs of the zodiac with the 12 tribes of Israel. In a medieval Midrash on the festivals of the year (Pesikta Rabbati), a passage occurs which explains the names of the signs homiletically in accordance with Jewish history." Correct astrology needs the study of all the thousand+ of possible different symbols by experience and own check of validity inclusive knowledge about all the correct astronomical calculations for each time and location.
It needs the knowledge of the full spectrum of human psyche (Unabomber, Charles Manson, Tourette syndrom guys, Losers, genies, musicians, dreamers, introverted sentimental, etc.). What is the plot of his chart? What is the load in this life and what are the possibilities of that character? Using Astrology one can find an answer in some minutes, while a psychologist needs some month to find the kernel point of a being. This scope includes a view to the load from prior life's and it's effects from causality together with a perspective of jobs for this life.

People do ask, 'why do I have this individual fate?' 'What is the cause?' It should be clear, that no one is born with the same social state or same state of health condition for his life. If causality is an acknowledged law, there could not be a random chaos without any order in the nature of psychological life. Astrology shows this dynamic of life for each individual, which is stamped while birth with the specific signs of time in an eternal harmony with the laws of the universe from the state of position of the earth to the planetary angle positions in the 2 Pi space and four quadrants around the location of birth.

Hope this helps.

Volker

Volker.Doormann

Did they told you about your loud serious fights you had with your father?

lunachick

LOL! That was a shot in the dark, Volker, and you know it. Like all early teens I shouted and cried at my parents when I wasn't allowed to go out, or get my own way, or whatever. That was way too easy.

Incidentally, I was born in Bad Aibling, Germany, on the 11th May 1963, at approx 12 noon. Go for it!

Volker.Doormann

I spoke on 'your loud serious fights you had with your father', and you speak about ' I shouted and cried at my parents', and thats - however - a hit. Those remarks are not taken from random; they are published. I can tell you more about the relation between you and your father, your confused parent's home and about your 'hard' conversation stil in life discussions.

I think, you have missed your father as a real father, you are quick at repartee, but sometime your talking prior to thinking. You do not know fear or danger and you destroy the things, which you love. You are acting in hidden areas, you are mad about your inhibitions, you do hide your intentions, and you have problems to be soft and gentle. If you have a partner he is a problem to you. You are fixed in your mind, sometimes you are agressive and of powerful violence. You love philosophy and culture ... [some 20k byte more text snipped].

Volker

MortalWombat

A few years ago I saw some program on TV that had James Randi on it. Randi performed a demonstration in a classroom of college students. He announced that an astrologer had done readings on each student. He handed each student his or her particular horoscope and asked each one to read their own horoscope privately, and then asked to rate its accuracy on a scale of one to five, five being the best.

Almost all the scores were fives and the rest were fours. Then Randi asked the students to pass their horoscopes to the student behind them. After a few seconds the students realized that every horoscope was worded exactly the same.

A similar thing was done by John Stossel on Good Morning America. He had an astrologer do a chart for mass murderer Ed Kemper, passed it out to a bunch of people, and asked them to rate how acurately it reflected their own lives. Most agreed that it did. Then he revealed to them that they all got the same horoscope, and to top it all off, it was of a mass murderer. That elicited a few laughs from the participants.

Arken

Oh please. It's only a 'hit' because most teens had 'loud, serious fights' with their father. Try something more specific... like the name of the first guy she kissed or something.

Volker.Doormann

There are some rules in science. Who has checked the correct birth time from Ed from with a horoscope was made? I find on the IN: "KEMPER, Ed ("The Co-Ed Killer") Born in 1945 in Burbank, California, Kemper began having problems after his parents' divorce. "

or "Ed Kemper was born in December of 1948 in Burbank, California (USA). He had 2 sisters. His mother and father fought constantly; eventually they divorced. It was after the divorce that Kemper began having problems."

If I get a correct birth certificate from Ed, I can write which astrological signs are relevant for his special psyche stamp. Without this your example is of no scientific worth. It is like religiuos bias.

BTW. This example shows, that people do believe, what they would believe: The believe, that one text is scored by several readers shell disprove the hole astrology. But astrology wasn't involved in this game, except as one text sheet from which was asserted by no prove, it is a text from Ed's chart. The object of this game were stupid scoring students who score each shit paper where an empty square is. Strange skeptics here.