Jamie_L

Okay. So God ressurects everybody, and those that are separated from him before death are separated when ressurected. Now, at this point you imply God does nothing to erase that separation. Is that a choice God makes, or is something God cannot do?

Jamie

Vanderzyden

Jamie,

What I find amazing is this: you remain concerned about God's punishment.Why do you press the issue? If you have earnestly sought to find the truth, and you have found it, then why aren't you persuading others of this truth you found? Instead, you are posing these hypothetical questions.

The answer to the first question will only come from you. I don't know if you realize this, but your are attempting to put me in a position that I cannot possibly fill. You see, Jamie, there are only two persons that know the answer: you, and God. You know that if God exists, then he knows how hard you have searched and if you prefer the comfort of your own worldview to his. This is something only you can answer. I cannot tell you if you have done enough.

In regard to your second question: This is not something that I have formed a belief on previously. If you ask me what I think at the moment, I would say that I don't think it's likely. It's unlikely that someone will earnestly seek the truth and deny the existence of the Creator. So far, my experience with atheists and agnostics is that they have not thoroughly justified their beliefs. In fact, we have just seen in this very thread that one particular atheist has not searched as well as he previously claimed. But then, I don't think I've encounted anyone like, say, Bertrand Russell.

Vanderzyden

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: Vanderzyden ]</p>

K

In fact, God makes the conscious choice to resurrect individuals simply to allow them to suffer for all eternity. Thanks for the favor, God, but no thanks.

To all who might think that last line means that I really do believe in God, let me just say that it was only meant to show that this idea of God is absurd unless you believe in a cruel God. I really, honestly don't believe God exists and I don't believe I can talk to Him.

Mageth

In fact, we have just seen in this very thread that one particular atheist has not searched as well as he previously claimed.

If you're referring to me, then, frankly, bullshit.

Jamie_L

That is exactly what I am doing. The way I have come to my conclusions is by asking these very types of questions and finding no answers that make any sense. When I got into the details of a theological worldview, it didn't make sense. There were contraditions. Things that were illogical. Irrational. Things that, if they were true, would seem ludicrous, or in direct opposition to other things that would also presumeably be true.

So that is why I press the issue. To point out that "this makes no sense" and that these questions have no satisfactory answers. I pose hypothetical questions to show that it can't all be true, because some of it contradicts other aspects.

Jamie

K

Jamie:

I get hit with that all the time. Anytime I treat God as an existing being for the sake of arguement, I'm hit with an accusation that I really do believe in God that's why I put the disclaimer at the end of my last post.

Mageth

I just noticed this interesting contradiction in Van's last post to Jamie. First he says:

The answer to the first question will only come from you. I don't know if you realize this, but your are attempting to put me in a position that I cannot possibly fill. You see, Jamie, there are only two persons that know the answer: you, and God. You know that if God exists, then he knows how hard you have searched and if you prefer the comfort of your own worldview to his. This is something only you can answer. I cannot tell you if you have done enough.

Fair enough. However, he then says:

So far, my experience with atheists and agnostics is that they have not thoroughly justified their beliefs. In fact, we have just seen in this very thread that one particular atheist has not searched as well as he previously claimed.

So which is it, can you not tell if someone has done enough, god and the individual only know, or are you capable of discerning that someone has not done enough?

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

Vanderzyden

Mageth,

While I have read your posts recently, I have been avoiding you because I thought it best to let things cool off.

There is no contradiction in what I said. Although, we see again that you are not addressing the core of the issue, but instead spend your time looking for contradictions.

So, are you ready for me to engage you again? Just say the word.

Vanderzyden

Daggah

Vander, you're right to let things cool off a little before posting again. After all, your pathetic arguments can only be burned to ashes so many times...

Mageth

While I have read your posts recently, I have been avoiding you because I thought it best to let things cool off.

Rather than apologizing as I suggested, and thus cooling things off, you're avoiding me. How...Christlike.

There is no contradiction in what I said. Although, we see again that you are not addressing the core of the issue, but instead spend your time looking for contradictions.

Sorry, but I see a contradiction when you say:

This is something only you can answer. I cannot tell you if you have done enough.

and then follow it with the implication that a poster on this thread (which I assume to be a reference to me) has not "searched as well as he previously claimed" and thus has not "thoroughly justified [his] beliefs". (I see this as you telling me I have not done enough.)

So rather than attempting a misdirection by accusing me of "avoiding the core issue," which I have not (I'm not certain what "core issue" you're referring to here, BTW), explain why this is not a contradiction.

Or not, and let's try to get back to the original topic.

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>