Jobar

Some others believe that they don't exist(solipsism)

You mean nihilism, Christ. Solipsism is the belief that only your own awareness exists, and is making up the world it seemingly experiences.

It appears to me that all in this conversation agree that God, however defined, is not a concrete entity- more exactly, we have no evidence to prove him so. We all *do* agree that God exists as an abstraction- a very fuzzy and ill-defined one, but the very fact that all of us come here and sling the word about freely proves this.

Heh. I've often wondered- if we found some objective, scientific proof of a god's concrete existence, would the committed theists refuse to believe in it if the evidence pointed to a god vastly different than the one they had faith in? I suspect, very strongly, that this would prove true. Just imagine the uproar when former atheists start offering scientific proof of a god not their own to fundamentalists!

ComestibleVenom

No, there isn't, unless it's a place that will unrelentingly torture me until I am mentally broken and additionally believe that 2 + 2 is 7.

ComestibleVenom

So you can do nothing but urge us to find our own internal conviction? That doesn't inspire me with confidence that you have found the truth, sounding as it does like an avoidance of naturalistic epistemic requirements. And it is truth, not spirituality, that atheists are seeking when they demand evidence or argument for a religious position.

stretch

Well, if that's what you want, all the best in trying to find such a place.

pagabler

Actually, I had indended my point to be that I can't speak to God's existance for you, or for anybody for that matter, other than myself.

Realization of what I call "God" is experiential, not logical. I can no more convince you, or anybody else, that God exists than I can make ten angels dance on the head of a pin...

P.

Randy X

Perhaps Santa will bring me some presents?

Some theists define God illogically, providing more contradictions than one can think of, meanwhile others provide a coherant definition that cannot be proven.In either case, you're fired

Can any theist tell me why they believe in something that has not been proven or shown to be valid? Pretend like I want to be convinced, what evidence or explanation would you use to convince me?

Believing in pink unicorns and the Easter Bunny, have about the equal amount of credibility, so whats so special?

Perhaps we can talk about this over some tea and crumpets

Regards

Philosoft

Heh. Presupposing duality makes these assumptions fathomable, I suppose.

It's probably a nitpick. I think we both know what is meant.
"Arbitrary" is probably the wrong word. I think "ad hoc" might be a more accurate term.

stretch

To be honest with you, I'm not really sure what people are saying around here a lot of the time with the words that they select ... (and I think the same holds sometimes with how people interpret the words that I choose.)