Koyaanisqatsi

It would be amusing to see you try. A hell of a lot more amusing than what amuses kamchatka.

Fire with fire.

Bring it on.

Well, ignoring the fact that you're making this claim on my behalf and you're the one challenging my "claim," thus it would be incumbent upon you to "put up or shut up," fine.

My claim: I know all the answers to my existence through the proper application of the cognitive tools of science and/or logic.

Go ahead and present your counter-claim.

Well, decide what it is we're debating. Is it that atheism is the "default position" of humanity upon birth or is it "my claim" presented above.

You choose. It doesn't matter to me.

Already done. Just awaiting your acceptance of the terms and the support of your counter claim since you're the one asserting my claim is not legitimate in some manner.

Gee...what an intelligent standard...

Could we establish a more...substantial standard, perhaps, especially since your sense has been demonstrated to not be what I would consider "common"? Or, for that matter, "sense?"

Already accepted and awaiting your first argument against my claim outlined above.

Me or my position? My guess? You won't be able to deconstruct my position so you'll resort to...



Years before you were born.

Go ahead. You've established and challenged my claim. What's your argument?

[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: Koyaanisqatsi ]</p>

WJ

Koy,

You said;


"My claim: I know all the answers to my existence through the proper application of the cognitive tools of science and/or logic."

Agreed. Prove that! This is my point, you can't prove that statement is absolute. You do not understand your own existence. Otherwise, is the default position absolute? True or false?

Perhaps another thread is in order....

Walrus

free12thinker

WJ. FOR THE ABSOLUE LAST TIME. MY ATHEIST POSITION (WHICH IS NOT DEFAULT) IS NOT ABOLUTE.

IT IS NOT ABSOLUTE
IT IS NOT ABSOLUTE
IT IS NOT ABSOLUTE
IT IS NOT ABSOLUTE
IT IS NOT ABSOLUTE

GET IT YET! ATHEISM IS NOT ABSOLUTE, NOTHING IS. BUT IT IS MORE PROBABLY, REASONABLE, LOGICAL, PRACTICAL, POSSIBLE, REALISTIC & LIKELY THAN THEISM. I WON'T TRY AND EXPLAIN WHY BECAUSE YOU'LL SIMPLY ARGUE THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE MEASURING GOD BY THE SAME LOGIC AND REASON THAT WE MEASURE EVERYONE(THING) ELSE, BECAUSE HE IS TOO POWERFUL AND MYSTERIOUS AND HEADS-AND-SHOULDERS ABOVE EVERYTHING THAT WE COMPREHEND. THAT IS A WEAK ANSWER THAT WE CHOOSE NOT TO FOLLOW. WE USE LOGIC AND REASON TO SEE THINGS AND RELIGION/GOD WILL NOT BE AN EXCEPTION.

ATHEISM IS NOT ABSOLUTE! THERE!

free12thinker

Agreed and Prove that. Let's look at these two phrases, side by side as they are. First you bring up Koy's post. Directly after the post, you state "Agreed". Does this mean you agree with his post?

Well if you agree with it, why would he have to "prove that"?

And then, without letting him answer in any way, shape or form, you state "that's my point, you can't". Aren't you going to give him a chance to reply before you fly off the handle and state that he can't. It's like asking a question and decrying the answer before the person even answers.

So, Koy does not understand his own existence?
Is there something complicated about the male/female sexual reproduction process which brought him into this world? Do you need to be versed in sex-ed. Maybe you could just retake biology and the human body.

Well, maybe I could join you, cause after Koy's last two posts (crack-up), I am peeing myself all over. Ooops.

Philosoft

Perhaps not, but your methods are irritating.

<strong> Certainly some of them are trying. I happen to think theists are asking the wrong questions.

<strong> Basically, our brains are complex patterning machines. When something interrupts a pattern, our brains try to fill it in. Simple.

<strong> Disagree all you want, but do it with some subtlety and style instead of confrontational rhetoric.

<strong> Yes, well, you let me know when you're all done with that, mkay?

Koyaanisqatsi

I will assume you are "agreed" to my terminology and then you're asking me to prove my claim?

Ok. All of the answers to my existence (I am a 36 year old male, living in New York City, made out of a complex combination of molecules, guided, apparently, by what we call "consciousness" and/or sentience, that I prefer to simply call intelligence), I know as a direct result of the proper application of the cognitive tools of science and/or logic.

I was taught how to apply such tools in school and through books that I have read over the years and sharpen them as often as I can so that I can continue to grow in my knowledge.

Nor do I need to.

This would be your counter claim. Provide the support for your counter claim please.

Your question is nonsensical. Please follow the basic rules of argumentation and debate and present your counter claim and the argument that supports your counter claim.

Forcing a straw man of "absolutism" does not support a counter claim, unless and until you can establish why my claim would require that I establish whatever this "absolute" you're talking about is.

Lead on McDuff.

[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: Koyaanisqatsi ]</p>

Koyaanisqatsi

Well?

Koyaanisqatsi

I reiterate....well?

The Other Michael

Hi Koy,

a small niggle - I think that is "Lay on", not "lead on" for the Shakespeare quote.

But other than that - lay into him.

cheers,
Michael

Kamchatka

Philosoft,

It is interesting, trivially, that you find my methods "irritating", lacking "subtlety and style", given the wealth of non-confrontational rhetoric posted with such eloquoence on this thread.

Do not get me wrong, I consider it a privilege and a pleasure being singled out for such a subtle and stylish tongue-lashing.

I apologize for purposely agitating the atheist puppies on this thread. I know it must be very difficult potty-training them and convincing them that they were born questioning whether or not they should suck on mommy's tit.

You said,"I happen to think theists are asking the wrong questions."

Which ones are those? I happen to believe we are born asking the same questions.

Where am I?

How did I get here?

Where am I going?

Where the hell is Mommy?

Define god any way you prefer. Mommy is one of them.

A whole bunch of us are asking the wrong questions. Theists are not alone on that front.

Philosoft, sometimes confrontations should not be avoided, if only for their entertainment value.