Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sweep · 06-26-2003, 09:03 AM

meritocrat, if this doesn't touch you, nothing short of actually experiencing (first hand?) the consequences of physical and mental abuse will. This is my final attempt to bring home the awful reality that many here have tried to express. Although this is an extreme example, situations such as those described here, are not rare. are you aware of how many kids go missing every year?

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Garrow was born on March 4, 1936, the son of French-Canadian parents near the village of Dannemora in upstate New York. Robert Garrow had five brothers and sisters; one brother died at a very early age. Another brother, the oldest, was given away at birth and his whereabouts have never been ascertained.

The senior Robert Garrow was a mineworker and a heavy drinker who took out his frustrations and anger on his son. But his mother, the 5-foot-1, 270-pound Margaret Garrow, was well known in Mineville and her hostile, callous disposition weighed heavily on Robert�s stunted development. �My mother was an extremely cruel person,� one of her daughters said later. She was a violent, unforgiving woman who beat her children and displayed little compassion or understanding for any of them. �I more or less block everything out of the past,� said her daughter Agnes years later, �I more or less closed it out of my mind, anything as a child.�

Margaret beat Robert often and sometimes used whatever was handy at the time, including a crowbar, a belt or even a brick. On more than one occasion, she had assaulted the boy to a point where he was rendered unconscious. �My mother hit my brother Robert extremely hard with a piece of stove wood� I thought he was dead and I threw some water on him,� said his sister Florence in 1974. �My mother used to whip him all the time.�

With no formal education and no friends, Robert was left to fend for himself. He had no peer companionship and no meaningful adult supervision. At the age of 7, he worked on neighbor�s farms for which his mother collected his pay. �My father gave him away to a farmer down in Moriah and he worked there on the farm until he was approximately 15 years old,� his sister Florence said later to the court. Throughout the early years of his development, whenever he was at home, Robert endured frequent beatings from both mother and father. He spent most of his days and nights tending to livestock and performing chores that needed to be done. And most times, Robert was alone. Perhaps because of this isolation, Robert began having sexual contact with the animals on the farm. He had intercourse with cows, horses, sheep and dogs. When he first began this practice he may have been as young as 10.

�When I was probably about 10, 11, 12 years old, because I had no friends and I never used to play�I didn�t know no children or anything. Of course I had to fool around with calves, horses, cows, you know,� Garrow said during court testimony. He continued these activities for years without being discovered. He may have experienced a sense of gratification with animals that he was unable to achieve with humans. �I never had dates. Never knew anybody,� Garrow said later. �I kept doing it for 10 years or so�then after, on other farms I worked,� he said later. �And I used to put the milking machine on myself...you know, masturbate myself with it.� Garrow�s bizarre habits continued for many years. At the age of 15, he was sent to a state reform school for punching his father in the face after a heated argument. When he was released from the school a year later, he joined the Air Force.

In the military, Garrow suffered severe and constant ridicule for bed-wetting, a life-long habit that he managed to keep a secret until then. He later got into trouble when he stole money from an Air Force sergeant. He received a court martial and was sentenced to six months in a military prison in Florida. Garrow escaped from custody but was apprehended several days later. He was sentenced to one year in another military stockade in Georgia. After completing the prison term, he was discharged from the service. He had spent nearly two years in the service, almost all of it in jail.

the following is only one example of unimaginable terror that many children faced- the victims of garrow. For the parents, their nightmare would last a lifetime:

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�C�mere!� he said to the 9-year-old. The girl looked up, her wide eyes full of fear and worry. She froze when she looked over at her friend unsure what to do next. They didn�t know what the man wanted. The stranger pulled a plastic handgun out of his rear pocket. It looked real and must have been terrifying to the children. He stuck the gun in the face of the 9-year old. �C�mere! I said!� he ordered.

�I had the girls play with me, if that will help you any,� the man told a jury later, �and one of them committed an act of sodomy, orally, and that is what happened.� Their nightmare with this man lasted three long hours. The only redeeming factor of the encounter was that he let the girls live. He was fully capable of murder and soon he would kill others who weren�t so lucky as these two. His name was Robert Francis

meritocrat · 06-26-2003, 10:57 AM

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Originally posted by Nowhere357
This statement seems stupid to me. People are negatively affected by physical and mental abuse - they don't "let" it affect them, it DOES affect them. Duh.

Of course they can stop themselves from suffering from it. They can CHOOSE not to think about it or seek help in overcoming the difficulty.

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And what exactly is mentally and emotionally healthy about advocating hateful intolerant anti-social behavior? [/B]

Hmm...I'm interested to learn of your great psychiatric expertise.

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meritocrat, if this doesn't touch you, nothing short of actually experiencing (first hand?) the consequences of physical and mental abuse will. This is my final attempt to bring home the awful reality that many here have tried to express. Although this is an extreme example, situations such as those described here, are not rare. are you aware of how many kids go missing every year?

Whatever, I'm not interested.

ComestibleVenom · 06-26-2003, 11:27 AM

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Originally posted by meritocrat
Of course they can stop themselves from suffering from it. They can CHOOSE not to think about it or seek help in overcoming the difficulty.

Ohh, THAT's the secret. Suck it up.

Well god damn, why are we wasting all this money on mental health when these weaklings should be sucking it up? I mean, it should be accepted that being continually slapped around for months on end is a part of life, and we just have to accept it.

Jesus, to think all these millions are wasted when these people are in perfect control of themselves. Just like you, right meritocrat? Everybody has just an easy or tough time as you.

winstonjen · 06-26-2003, 12:14 PM

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Originally posted by meritocrat
I already have character.

Good. Then you admit that bullying is not a prerequisite for gaining character.

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Of course they can stop themselves from suffering from it. They can CHOOSE not to think about it or seek help in overcoming the difficulty.

So? That's not a justification to bully anyone.

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And what exactly is mentally and emotionally healthy about advocating hateful intolerant anti-social behavior?

I believe that meritocrat believes in a 'better them than me' philosophy when it comes to bullying.

Nowhere357 · 06-26-2003, 01:12 PM

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Originally posted by meritocrat
Of course they can stop themselves from suffering from it. They can CHOOSE not to think about it or seek help in overcoming the difficulty.

Ah. Then this theistic argument must be very compelling for you: "Believe in Jesus or you CHOOSE to go to hell!".

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Hmm...I'm interested to learn of your great psychiatric expertise

Good non-answer. So you have no reason to think that advocating hateful intolerant anti-social behavior indicates that you are mentally and emotionally healthy.

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Whatever, I'm not interested.

Showing that your point in the OP was not about honest discussion. What WAS your point, then?

Cipher44 · 06-26-2003, 03:57 PM

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Originally posted by meritocrat
[B]Of course they can stop themselves from suffering from it. They can CHOOSE not to think about it or seek help in overcoming the difficulty.

Ah yes, denial (personal comment deleted by moderator). Yes, denial is very healthy. And we should encourage bullying, of course, because it builds character in the strong, and if it screws up the weaker ones, they can always go into therapy. And everybody sleeps well.

Pain Paien · 06-26-2003, 08:23 PM

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A good try at psychoanalysis, which has failed.

There's no need for psychoanalysis; your situation is terrifically obvious. (removed by moderator) You have assiduously adhered to your assertion that bullying is a positive thing (no matter the situation, because if the person can't handle it and it causes them grievous harm, it's their fault anyway), despite having absolutely no personal experience, outside evidence, or even, it would seem, any sort reasonable human empathy for the issue.

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I already have character.

Yes, I'm sure everyone can agree to that. (removed by moderator).

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I'm mentally and emotionally healthy

Interesting that you think so. Coming from a person who has what appears to be a complete lack of feeling for the suffering of others (and even wishes to continue this suffering), this is a rather dubious claim. (deleted by moderator)

<Pain Paien, you need to read the IIDB and MF&P rules - especially in MF&P you are expected to not make personal comments/attacks about another poster - attack the arguments, not the arguer - Michael>

NZAmoeba · 06-29-2003, 06:56 PM

6 pages... thats one successfull troll we have here...

even "light" bullying can have severe effects, anyone here heard of chinesse water torture?

*drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *drip* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP* *DRIP!!!!* *DRIP!!!!* *DRIP!!!!* *DRIP!!!!* *DRIP!!!!* *DRIP!!!!* *DRIP!!!!* *pulls out a gun and shoots anyone in sight*

minus the gun part, thats probably a good example of what most ppls experience as a victim is like... and then you get to feel like even more of an idiot when you try and explain why you had a nervous breakdown because someone took your pen. :banghead:

meritocrat · 07-01-2003, 06:38 AM

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Originally posted by Nowhere357
Ah. Then this theistic argument must be very compelling for you: "Believe in Jesus or you CHOOSE to go to hell!".

What?

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Good non-answer. So you have no reason to think that advocating hateful intolerant anti-social behavior indicates that you are mentally and emotionally healthy.

Complaining about problems that don't affect you now is not a sign of emotional health.

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Showing that your point in the OP was not about honest discussion. What WAS your point, then?

My 'point' was to ask why bullying is wrong.

Nowhere357 · 07-01-2003, 07:15 AM

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Originally posted by meritocrat
What?

We do not CHOOSE our emotional feelings - they just happen. We only can CHOOSE our actions.

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Complaining about problems that don't affect you now is not a sign of emotional health.

No-one said otherwise. But for a fact, psychological damage can exist long after the original physical damage has healed. Are you really unaware of this?

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My 'point' was to ask why bullying is wrong.

If this is true, then why, in response to this:"This is my final attempt to bring home the awful reality that many here have tried to express." did you answer with this:

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Whatever, I'm not interested.

So you ask why bullying is wrong, but are "not interested" in listening to someone's answer.

Well, you said "ask why" and not "learn why" so maybe you're just trolling.

And the answer to your question is very simple and obvious.

Torture is wrong.
Bullying is a form of torture.

Now, which of these points confuses you?

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06-29-2003, 06:56 PM	#148
NZAmoeba Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 478	6 pages... thats one successfull troll we have here... even "light" bullying can have severe effects, anyone here heard of chinesse water torture? drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip drip DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP!!!! DRIP!!!! DRIP!!!! DRIP!!!! DRIP!!!! DRIP!!!! DRIP!!!! pulls out a gun and shoots anyone in sight minus the gun part, thats probably a good example of what most ppls experience as a victim is like... and then you get to feel like even more of an idiot when you try and explain why you had a nervous breakdown because someone took your pen. :banghead:

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