andy_d

Well in that case this Buddhist thinks it must be worth a read!

I'm always up for a bit of guerrilla dharma

triplew00t

I would be interested in hearing your opinion of the Doubtboy page, Andy. Especially the article towards the bottom on Reincarnation.

Nero

Magic Primate

Gautama Buddha was a man who had some insights - he was not a god or a supernatural being, so there is no reason why he might have special access to supernatural knowledge. His central insights were existential and pragmatic, not metaphysical.

andy_d

Nothing really surprising in that article, triplew00t. All looks pretty orthodox to me.

I like this though:

I couldn't agree more. Thinking that reincarnation is an important concept in Buddhism is, frankly, a load of old rubbish.

triplew00t

I've always thought that if reincarnation of an individual existed, it was very important to know about it. But I think many modern Buddhists accept the concept of a person having a soul to be reincarnated, despite Buddha's insistance on Anatman and emptiness. As best as I can descern, we leave impressions that continue to cause effects in the world, so our imprint exists on everyone, because without any one action of any one individual the universe would have headed in a drastically different direction (ala Chaos Theory and the Tornado Causing Butterfly). But as far as us, any part of us that continues to experience or exist consciously, that ends at death when the brain dies. This, as well, is what I think Buddhism was in its original form.

Don't forget that many refute what Jesus taught as being put into his mouth because it was 50 years before anything was written down. With Gautama it was 300 years. Thats alot of time for rumors, folklore and legend to creep into his teachings. For example, the tells of his past lives, originally presented (I believe) as morality parables, were only later interpreted to be his past lives. Anyway, I simply think that the idea of reincarnation is dependent on a concept that Buddha denied - a soul to be reincarnated. Same with transmigration. Useless concept as well. I believe in rebirth, and that is what happens with every passing moment. But after my body dies, I am dead. No experiencer, no perception. Only my karma effecting others and my memory.

Nero

andy_d

If they do, they're fooling themselves. Buddhism focuses on the mind. It has nothing to say about any idea of a "soul".

The reason the idea of rebirth is persistent is because the mind is held to be different from other phenomenon in that it is not composite ie: it is not formed from anything. Since the true mind is not a "thing" (and the self is definately not the mind) the mind cannot be destroyed and cannot die. It has no composite parts, cannot change, and is not relative to anything. As you say, emptiness (although note that this is not the same as nothingness) Perhaps a better term i've heard is "radiant clear space"

This is really where the idea of rebirth comes form. It's not that the individual continues beyond death, it's that at a fundamental level you are really something which was not born and cannot die. How can space die?

As you can see, there's a bit of a difference between that and saying "don't worry, you'll come back to life again after you die". You won't, but there's a big part of you that that isn't "you" as such, and therefore cannot be affected by your death.

Hope that makes some kind of sense. I'm not much more than a novice myself, but that's my understanding.

Ramen

triplew00t,

I�ve only read Buddhist books and posted on Buddhist forums (when they existed), but I�ve pulled myself out of a pit of depression.

The first thing you think about when Buddhism comes to mind is �no attachments�. My first inclination regarding this �no attachments� mentality was of a materialistic non-attachment. But after reading/contemplating Buddhism for a little over 3 years, I�ve come to understand that an attachment can also be to a belief. Buddha encouraged a �see for yourself� mentality, so Buddhism does NOT emphasize believing (which would include a belief in reincarnation). My advice is to let go of any obligation to believe in anything or to have any obligation of defining reality. This will be a great weight off of your shoulders.

I highly recommend books written by Pema Chodron. She is a Tibetan Buddhist nun who really gets to the point of why we suffer and makes us face the root cause of our suffering. Click here for a Powell Books listing of some of her books.

Magic Primate

I agree with most of what you've said, although I would say that really 'emptiness' is not some imaginary 'Cosmic Void'. Zen is very mundane (super mundane even) and not metaphysical. D T Suzuki defined emptiness along the lines of 'your everyday mind without dualistic/categorical thinking' (or without clinging to such thinking perhaps?). Emptiness ('Mu') is a state of freedom from such clinging and categories. When you take everything away (including ideas of 'nothingness' and 'the Void'), all that's left is freedom.

triplew00t

Magic Primate. Are you by any chance "monkey magic" on the beliefnet.com zen forum?

Nero

Magic Primate

I've been rumbled!

Do you post there?