Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Laurentius · 03-31-2002, 02:15 PM

Snatchbalance

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Quote:

It's a dirty business, but sometimes one needs to clear away the old to make room for the new.
Evolution cannot take place if the niche is occupied.

Why do I get the feeling that good ol’ Adolph and his followers would love this quote?

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Laurentius · 03-31-2002, 02:21 PM

John Page

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Quote:

Destroy? A house built on sand? Why bother.

And yet, rarely have I seen a Secular Humanist being able to make a point without resorting to attacks against Christianity and religious belief.

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Vorkosigan · 03-31-2002, 02:43 PM

Why do I get the feeling that good ol’ Adolph and his followers would love this quote?

Why do I get the feeling that you are being deliberately rude and provoking?

Vorkosigan · 03-31-2002, 02:47 PM

And yet, rarely have I seen a Secular Humanist being able to make a point without resorting to attacks against Christianity and religious belief.

Why yes, the Humanist is making a case that non-religion is better than religion. How could that be done without showing why religion is basically evil, and a human-centered ethos basically good? One exists in contrast to the other.....

Michael

Laurentius · 03-31-2002, 03:11 PM

turtonm

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Quote:

Why do I get the feeling that you are being deliberately rude and provoking?

I guess because I tend to be intolerant with intolerance, or to take an preposterous argument to its extremes in order to make its absurdity more evident.

Quote:

the Humanist is making a case that non-religion is better than religion

Is that all Humanism has to say? This is quite a limitative goal to which I refuse to subscribe. Here's what other humanists have to say:
Humanism is a philosophy of imagination. Humanists recognize that intuitive feelings, hunches, speculation, flashes of inspiration, emotion, altered states of consciousness, and even religious experience, while not valid means to acquire knowledge, remain useful sources of ideas that can lead us to new ways of looking at the world. These ideas, after they have been assessed rationally for their usefulness, can then be put to work, often as alternate approaches for solving problems.

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Vorkosigan · 03-31-2002, 03:38 PM

Is that all Humanism has to say? This is quite a limitative goal to which I refuse to subscribe.

Don't be silly. Where did I say it was all Humanism had to say? You asked why humanists attack religion; I answered.

It appears that you are simply trolling for quotes you can mine for out-of-context statements or twist to fit some bizarre conception you have of where others fall short of your views. Why are you wasting our time?

Michael

John Page · 03-31-2002, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laurentius:
<strong>And yet, rarely have I seen a Secular Humanist being able to make a point without resorting to attacks against Christianity and religious belief.
</strong>

Yep. I'm not a secular humanist BTW. Forget the feelgood stuff for its own sake and find something that really works.

Laurentius · 03-31-2002, 04:03 PM

turtonm

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Quote:

Don't be silly. Where did I say it was all Humanism had to say? You asked why humanists attack religion; I answered.

No, I did not just ask that. Should you have read the context of this discussion, you could have noticed that I have been pointing out the need of rethinking Secular Humanism in the direction of developing it independently from the theism vs. atheism debate.

Quote:

It appears that you are simply trolling for quotes you can mine for out-of-context statements or twist to fit some bizarre conception you have of where others fall short of your views. Why are you wasting our time?

Now you are the rude and provoking one. What gives you the right to judge me the way you do, and erect yourself into the one to speak for everyone else on this forum? (feel free to consider this a rhetorical question; in fact, ignore my posts altogether if you think I am awkward and incoherent)

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Laurentius · 03-31-2002, 04:20 PM

John Page

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Quote:

Yep. I'm not a secular humanist BTW.

All right, it’s clear. I haven't expected everyone to hold Secular Humanism, although it seems quite compelling to me.

Quote:

Forget the feelgood stuff for its own sake and find something that really works.

This is obscure. To what statement or position of mine are referring here?

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Vorkosigan · 03-31-2002, 04:51 PM

No, I did not just ask that. Should you have read the context of this discussion, you could have noticed that I have been pointing out the need of rethinking Secular Humanism in the direction of developing it independently from the theism vs. atheism debate.

That's nice, but I was responding to a thoughtless comment of yours about humanists attacking religion....in which you set yourself up as a judge, which makes your comments below quite amusing...

Now you are the rude and provoking one. What gives you the right to judge me the way you do, and erect yourself into the one to speak for everyone else on this forum?

Earth to Laurentius: where did I speak for everyone else on this forum? I noted that your comments in the last few posts -- the trollish ones referencing Hitler, and then the thoughtless judgemental comment about humanists attacking religion, and then the disingenuous use of a quote from me -- all tend to point in the same direction.

(feel free to consider this a rhetorical question; in fact, ignore my posts altogether if you think I am awkward and incoherent)

I do not think you are awkward or incoherent. Rather, your coherence has taken on a disturbing form.

Michael

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03-31-2002, 02:43 PM	#33
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Why do I get the feeling that good ol’ Adolph and his followers would love this quote? Why do I get the feeling that you are being deliberately rude and provoking?

03-31-2002, 02:47 PM	#34
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	And yet, rarely have I seen a Secular Humanist being able to make a point without resorting to attacks against Christianity and religious belief. Why yes, the Humanist is making a case that non-religion is better than religion. How could that be done without showing why religion is basically evil, and a human-centered ethos basically good? One exists in contrast to the other..... Michael

03-31-2002, 03:38 PM	#36
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Is that all Humanism has to say? This is quite a limitative goal to which I refuse to subscribe. Don't be silly. Where did I say it was all Humanism had to say? You asked why humanists attack religion; I answered. It appears that you are simply trolling for quotes you can mine for out-of-context statements or twist to fit some bizarre conception you have of where others fall short of your views. Why are you wasting our time? Michael

03-31-2002, 04:51 PM	#40
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	No, I did not just ask that. Should you have read the context of this discussion, you could have noticed that I have been pointing out the need of rethinking Secular Humanism in the direction of developing it independently from the theism vs. atheism debate. That's nice, but I was responding to a thoughtless comment of yours about humanists attacking religion....in which you set yourself up as a judge, which makes your comments below quite amusing... *Now you* are the rude and provoking one. What gives you the right to judge me the way you do, and erect yourself into the one to speak for everyone else on this forum? Earth to Laurentius: where did I speak for everyone else on this forum? I noted that your comments in the last few posts -- the trollish ones referencing Hitler, and then the thoughtless judgemental comment about humanists attacking religion, and then the disingenuous use of a quote from me -- all tend to point in the same direction. (feel free to consider this a rhetorical question; in fact, ignore my posts altogether if you think I am awkward and incoherent)** I do not think you are awkward or incoherent. Rather, your coherence has taken on a disturbing form. Michael

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