Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bree · 04-22-2003, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
We been assured by skeptics for 175 years it would result in peace on earth, when there is evidence it has had quite the opposite effect.

That's because we haven't been given the chance to rise to our, erm, full potential

.

The Frood Dude · 04-22-2003, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree

To me, a Christian is someone who (A) believes in the One True God and the Holy Trinity and (B) follows the Word of God to the letter. I have yet to meet someone who did not compromise their faith in some way. I have respect for the "whacked-out fundie nut-jobs" who try to follow the Bible 100% simply because they're not compromising their faith. It takes balls to not only refuse to eat lobster, but to also sell your daughters into slavery and believe that credit cards and social security numbers are the Mark of the Beast.

OOPS! Then I am not a Christian. Seeing as how I don't believe the Protestant canon (is that what we are calling the Word of God) was meant to be taken to the letter, I don't follow it that way.

I did meet a guy online that was true fundy, however. He supported polygamy and not eating lobster etc. I wish I could find the link to his website. But he didn't have a fence around the roof of his house. I think he would have sold his daughter into slavery if he had one.

lpetrich · 04-22-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
... Anyway, we're all waiting to see what a lack of faith in Christ has ever done for the world. We been assured by skeptics for 175 years it would result in peace on earth, when there is evidence it has had quite the opposite effect.

Radorth has yet to point to anyone who had claimed that.

Also, I've found out that the Thirty Years War had a relative death toll at least as great as that of Europe's 20th-cy. wars. And the Thirty Years War had happened in a time that Radorth seems to think was a 1600-year Golden Age of successful pacifism and all-around saintliness.

That's between Constantine's making Xianity the Roman Empire's official religion and the supposedly villainous 20th cy.

Radorth · 04-22-2003, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Radorth has yet to point to anyone who had claimed that.

Claiming theists are the source of all wars, uncategorically, is precisely the same thing I'm afraid.

Quote:

Also, I've found out that the Thirty Years War had a relative death toll at least as great as that of Europe's 20th-cy. wars. And the Thirty Years War had happened in a time that Radorth seems to think was a 1600-year Golden Age of successful pacifism and all-around saintliness.

You either can't read or you're obfuscating. I said the Bible wasn't available to the average person until around 1700, so people did things Jesus would never have approved of. You want us to believe that over 40,000,000 people died for their beliefs as at the hands of non-atheists, as well?

I'm afraid you've had 175 years to reach your "full potential" and folks are more likely to pray for a spiritual revival than become atheists. I suggest you to get into the schoolbook editing business and hope for the best.

Rad

lpetrich · 04-23-2003, 03:56 AM

Radorth:
You either can't read or you're obfuscating. I said the Bible wasn't available to the average person until around 1700, so people did things Jesus would never have approved of.

So what? The Church hierarchy still had Bibles to refer to.

You want us to believe that over 40,000,000 people died for their beliefs as at the hands of non-atheists, as well?

Radorth, Radorth, Radorth, you COMPLETELY ignored my point about relative number of people. Seventeenth-century Germany had only about 20 million people, so it was impossible for 40 million people to die in the Thirty Years War. However, a larger fraction died than died in the major wars of the 20th century.

And I thought that you might be glad that large numbers of people would be sent out of this evil and corrupt world a little bit early.

Radorth · 04-23-2003, 08:51 AM

Quote:

So what? The Church hierarchy still had Bibles to refer to.

Which they kept anyone else from reading until Luther (who was taught to beat himself with whips) actually read it. But of course you knew that already. Interesting how the "enlightenment" and the exposure to the NT just happen to coincide, and how the Founders pined for nascent Christianity while denigratiing "Papism." Just another of those inexplicable coincidences I guess.

Quote:

Radorth, Radorth, Radorth, you COMPLETELY ignored my point about relative number of people. Seventeenth-century Germany had only about 20 million people, so it was impossible for 40 million people to die in the Thirty Years War.

No kiddin'

Quote:

However, a larger fraction died than died in the major wars of the 20th century.

I thought we were talking about the murder of people by theists vs non-theists (again), and whether atheists have any history to brag about. But when you present it as fractions of the population, it certainly does sound better.

Quote:

And I thought that you might be glad that large numbers of people would be sent out of this evil and corrupt world a little bit early.

That would depend on whether they were saved, and of course I'm on record as being against almost all wars, questioning the necessity of even the Revolutionary and Civil wars to achieve their goals. But you doubtless knew that as well.

Rad

Rhea · 04-30-2003, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
That was the second one. In the first, I gave a list of the many examples set by Christians, which BTW, one of your poster boys, Jefferson, failed to follow. (Much to his historical deteriment). Funny such an enlightened soul insisted all in the military attend services to improve their morals. You have to give him credit there I suppose.

Ah. I see where you have hidden your "first" list. In the same paragraph as the second list. Hard to make it out as a distict list. Also disguised by the reference to Jefferson in a way that doesn't really relate to your "list" in any way. The only question present was regarding the marines and that's what I answered.

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
This thread is based on the nonsensical premise that everyone is a Christian who says so, fruits or no. In any case, the fact is that some Catholics and a plethora of non-Catholics have set the examples for the world to follow, from Quaker egalitarianism, to the Methodist abolitionists, to the works of the Christian Commission in the Civil War, to Schweitzer's altrusm, to the feeding, clothing and rebuilding of whole countries. And now we have the incredible example of Marines bowing the knee to calm an angry crowd in Iraq. How many think an atheist Chinese lieutenant would ever dream of ordering such a thing?

I'm sorry, but secular morality has already been field-tested and found to be so apathetic as to have effectively slaughtered more people in one 20th century year than Noah's flood. (Which I doubt ever happened).

Rad

Before I address it, I would like your answers to my comments on the modern half of the list. Like how you can assume Christianity is behind all of that activity.

Or, if you wish to ignore the numerous questions I have put to you in this and other threads, then that can be the end of it.

I feel justified in asking you to take my questions first, since I actually asked you direct questions. Then when we're done with that I can respond to your statement/list as if it was a question waiting to be answered if that's what you want now.

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04-23-2003, 03:56 AM	#95
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Radorth: You either can't read or you're obfuscating. I said the Bible wasn't available to the average person until around 1700, so people did things Jesus would never have approved of. So what? The Church hierarchy still had Bibles to refer to. You want us to believe that over 40,000,000 people died for their beliefs as at the hands of non-atheists, as well? Radorth, Radorth, Radorth, you COMPLETELY ignored my point about relative number of people. Seventeenth-century Germany had only about 20 million people, so it was impossible for 40 million people to die in the Thirty Years War. However, a larger fraction died than died in the major wars of the 20th century. And I thought that you might be glad that large numbers of people would be sent out of this evil and corrupt world a little bit early.

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