Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Queen of Swords · 06-13-2003, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by alli
I've no doubts in my mind that he will at some point try drink and maybe something else, I done it and I can't think of any teen who didn't.

I didn't. I never needed to; if I wanted to have some beer or wine or even Scotch, all I had to do was ask my dad (provided that I was asking for a glass, as opposed to the whole bottle). Partly because of this, I never felt tempted to try alcohol outside my house; the thrill of sampling forbidden fruit was gone.

auto-da-fe · 06-13-2003, 08:36 AM

Excelent point QoS. I am thinking of just such a policy in the future when the MegaOffspring get old enough.

Comquirk · 06-13-2003, 12:51 PM

I suppose of I child has earned thier parents trust, then snooping should be verboten.

However, if a child is known to have problems in regards to substance/alchohol use, or other things that concern a parent, it is techincally thier home and right to do so.

That seems fair to me.

yelyos · 06-13-2003, 01:24 PM

I believe that such snooping in a parent/child context is quite harmful to the parent/child relationship. The parents can never beat the kids when it comes to hiding. Parents learn much more by talking to their children than by snooping. As a 13 year old, I take certain minimal precautions against parental snooping. I haven't personally been aware of any snooping, but if I was, I would immediately be able to put up barriers. (some possible options for physical objects include taking things to school and hiding them there, or stashing them on top of pipes in a furnace room, or in a vent).

As for the computer, the parent would probably find himself or herself completely unmatched. Website history can be deleted, and illicit files can have their filenames changed as to be completely unrecognisable. (an example would be changing a jpeg file to something like Mpgrchk2.dll and plunking it in C:/Windows/System)

The point that I'm getting at is that if there is something that a child wants to hide from their parents, no amount of snooping will find it, if it really matters to the child. The only option that parents who want to learn about things happening in their children's lives have is to gain their children's trust and talk with them about such things. Snooping hurts the relationship without actually doing any good.

sweep · 06-13-2003, 01:25 PM

Quote:

I am thinking of just such a policy in the future when the MegaOffspring get old enough.

'dad, can I shoot speed into my arm?'

'sure son, that's why we got this lovely buffet. we got some great movies too; animal farm, shaven ravens & chicks with dicks. help yourself!'

Is this what a policy of openness entails?

Alli wrote:

Quote:

As an aside I was really shocked when Craig was 12, he had stayed overnight at a friend's house and came to me next day wanting to talk. He told me the friend had started to sniff a can of areosol and offered him some. He did, he tried it and his words were "I really didn't like it mum, I didn't like the feeling so when he offered me more I wouldn't do it".

the thing is, kids aren't going to be socially aware of all 'forbidden fruits'. They're going to see their parents having a tipple and possibly a bifta. I know of some parents who have openly 'chased the dragon' in front of their three year old.

What I'm really interested in is alli's sons reaction to solvent use. It seems as though alli's son is happy to talk of his activities outside of the family home. It seems as though he has a great mum and dad too.

yelyos · 06-13-2003, 01:40 PM

I think the best way to help prevent these things from happening is to educate children about ALL of them in as much of a non-confrontational way as possible. alli, if you had informed Craig about sniffing, I highly doubt he would have done so. And no, he's not too young; I personally try to keep myself as informed about such things as possible (and I'm his age.)

Also, my parents have let me drink beer or wine when I wanted to (we live in Canada, where it is legal for children to drink alcohol when under parental supervision in their own homes). As a result, I do not have any desire whatsoever to drink anything alcoholic. (I tried it and didn't like it. It's being treated as I would treat any other food that I dislike.)

Ab_Normal · 06-13-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
I didn't. I never needed to; if I wanted to have some beer or wine or even Scotch, all I had to do was ask my dad (provided that I was asking for a glass, as opposed to the whole bottle). Partly because of this, I never felt tempted to try alcohol outside my house; the thrill of sampling forbidden fruit was gone.

I remember asking my Mom for a taste of her beer when I was about five years old. That one sip of warm Hamms kept me off alcohol for the next fourteen years.

edited to fix munged up brackets

Born Free · 06-14-2003, 05:05 AM

Hello all

I forgot all about this thread as I rarely enter the upper fora!!!

Queen of Swords that's cool, my parents would never in a million years have offered me any drink whatsoever.

What I'm really interested in is alli's sons reaction to solvent use. It seems as though alli's son is happy to talk of his activities outside of the family home.

Shouldn't that read his activities within the home if what you're saying is what I think you are.

Now I'm confusing myself

I've always tried to be the type of parent where he can tell me anything he's done, that it's safe to do so. I haven't gone mad at him, we talk about it and I guess by doing this he hopefully will continue. He even asked me what you do when you have a girlfriend which I thought was quite amazing given that he's a lad. If I have to tell him off, I do it and that's the end of it, I don't give him the silent treatment or anything like that or harp on and on about it.

FWIW I don't drink at home at all really and never have done apart from dinner parties or new year, you could call me a social drinker, a few if I'm out which is rare or on holiday.

Yelyos we're pretty open in our household and I do encourage talking, nothing is taboo in that sense. I agree he isn't too young to be warned of this and that which I have done apart from the sniffing which I completely forgot about. Sex is something that we have discussed as well but he's not so keen on talking about that with me now, I think he'd go to my partner for that these days.

He might have tried it anyway even with a prior warning and he might not, there is a difference to being told about something and trying it for yourself. I think if you keep going on and on about something it might encourage the person to try it to see what all the fuss is about.

A very small case in point although not related to drugs or anything. His natural father went mental when he found out he wants to join the army, he went on about it for weeks as did the rest of his family. My opinion, it's his life and he will either love it or hate it but it's entirely up to him, going on and on will just make him more determined to join.

He's never been tempted to try it again and I doubt he will, he may or may not try other things but at the momment he's too interested in his computer games, music, his guitar and his army cadets to be bothered. He wants to join the army and he knows he has to be fit for that so hopefully he'll leave all of the experimenting till he's in there LOL.

Born Free · 06-14-2003, 05:09 AM

Oh and everyone please forgive me for derailing the thread quite a bit, I feel that I've harped on too much about my own experiences and my own kid, can't be very interesting for everyone sorry

sweep · 06-14-2003, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Shouldn't that read his activities within the home if what you're saying is what I think you are?

no, he told you what he did outside of the family home. My point was that children aren't going to be able to experience all of lifes 'wonders' within the household itself.

and you haven't derailed the thread. Thanks for sharing with us

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06-13-2003, 08:28 AM	#21
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by alli I've no doubts in my mind that he will at some point try drink and maybe something else, I done it and I can't think of any teen who didn't. I didn't. I never needed to; if I wanted to have some beer or wine or even Scotch, all I had to do was ask my dad (provided that I was asking for a glass, as opposed to the whole bottle). Partly because of this, I never felt tempted to try alcohol outside my house; the thrill of sampling forbidden fruit was gone.

06-13-2003, 08:36 AM	#22
auto-da-fe Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: edge of insanity Posts: 1,609	Excelent point QoS. I am thinking of just such a policy in the future when the MegaOffspring get old enough.

06-13-2003, 12:51 PM	#23
Comquirk Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Truro, NS/Fredericton, NB Canada Posts: 274	I suppose of I child has earned thier parents trust, then snooping should be verboten. However, if a child is known to have problems in regards to substance/alchohol use, or other things that concern a parent, it is techincally thier home and right to do so. That seems fair to me.

06-13-2003, 01:24 PM	#24
yelyos Regular Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: northern suburbs of Toronto, Canada Posts: 401	I believe that such snooping in a parent/child context is quite harmful to the parent/child relationship. The parents can never beat the kids when it comes to hiding. Parents learn much more by talking to their children than by snooping. As a 13 year old, I take certain minimal precautions against parental snooping. I haven't personally been aware of any snooping, but if I was, I would immediately be able to put up barriers. (some possible options for physical objects include taking things to school and hiding them there, or stashing them on top of pipes in a furnace room, or in a vent). As for the computer, the parent would probably find himself or herself completely unmatched. Website history can be deleted, and illicit files can have their filenames changed as to be completely unrecognisable. (an example would be changing a jpeg file to something like Mpgrchk2.dll and plunking it in C:/Windows/System) The point that I'm getting at is that if there is something that a child wants to hide from their parents, no amount of snooping will find it, if it really matters to the child. The only option that parents who want to learn about things happening in their children's lives have is to gain their children's trust and talk with them about such things. Snooping hurts the relationship without actually doing any good.

06-13-2003, 01:40 PM	#26
yelyos Regular Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: northern suburbs of Toronto, Canada Posts: 401	I think the best way to help prevent these things from happening is to educate children about ALL of them in as much of a non-confrontational way as possible. alli, if you had informed Craig about sniffing, I highly doubt he would have done so. And no, he's not too young; I personally try to keep myself as informed about such things as possible (and I'm his age.) Also, my parents have let me drink beer or wine when I wanted to (we live in Canada, where it is legal for children to drink alcohol when under parental supervision in their own homes). As a result, I do not have any desire whatsoever to drink anything alcoholic. (I tried it and didn't like it. It's being treated as I would treat any other food that I dislike.)

06-14-2003, 05:05 AM	#28
Born Free Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,177	Hello all I forgot all about this thread as I rarely enter the upper fora!!! Queen of Swords that's cool, my parents would never in a million years have offered me any drink whatsoever. What I'm really interested in is alli's sons reaction to solvent use. It seems as though alli's son is happy to talk of his activities outside of the family home. Shouldn't that read his activities within the home if what you're saying is what I think you are. Now I'm confusing myself I've always tried to be the type of parent where he can tell me anything he's done, that it's safe to do so. I haven't gone mad at him, we talk about it and I guess by doing this he hopefully will continue. He even asked me what you do when you have a girlfriend which I thought was quite amazing given that he's a lad. If I have to tell him off, I do it and that's the end of it, I don't give him the silent treatment or anything like that or harp on and on about it. FWIW I don't drink at home at all really and never have done apart from dinner parties or new year, you could call me a social drinker, a few if I'm out which is rare or on holiday. Yelyos we're pretty open in our household and I do encourage talking, nothing is taboo in that sense. I agree he isn't too young to be warned of this and that which I have done apart from the sniffing which I completely forgot about. Sex is something that we have discussed as well but he's not so keen on talking about that with me now, I think he'd go to my partner for that these days. He might have tried it anyway even with a prior warning and he might not, there is a difference to being told about something and trying it for yourself. I think if you keep going on and on about something it might encourage the person to try it to see what all the fuss is about. A very small case in point although not related to drugs or anything. His natural father went mental when he found out he wants to join the army, he went on about it for weeks as did the rest of his family. My opinion, it's his life and he will either love it or hate it but it's entirely up to him, going on and on will just make him more determined to join. He's never been tempted to try it again and I doubt he will, he may or may not try other things but at the momment he's too interested in his computer games, music, his guitar and his army cadets to be bothered. He wants to join the army and he knows he has to be fit for that so hopefully he'll leave all of the experimenting till he's in there LOL.

06-14-2003, 05:09 AM	#29
Born Free Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,177	Oh and everyone please forgive me for derailing the thread quite a bit, I feel that I've harped on too much about my own experiences and my own kid, can't be very interesting for everyone sorry

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