Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gawdawful · 08-11-2003, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krieger
In a real dictatorship there would be no legislative body and would have only one individual that writes/passes law (i.e. dictates).

Not if the leglislative body is basically chosen by the dictator or his party and/or basically rubberstamps everything the dictator wants to do. Iraq under Saddam? USA under Bush?

Warren in Oklahoma

sakrilege · 08-11-2003, 01:52 AM

some dictatorships

catholic church
southern baptists
jim jones
david koresh
mormons

TMA68 · 08-11-2003, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ultron
OK everyone, which political system do you prefer? Dictatorship or Democracy?

Neither. I prefer a democratic constitutional republic, which, unlike a pure democracy, protects the basic rights of the minority (e.g., freedom of speech) from the whims of the majority.

Todd Altman

meritocrat · 08-11-2003, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ultron
It's not pointless. I really wonder if there are people here who prefer dictatorships to democracies.

Why shouldn't there be?

It's this old 'democracy is the best' argument again?

conkermaniac · 08-11-2003, 05:58 AM

The best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship. In general, though, a democracy is better than a dictatorship. I guess I'll just remain undecided on this one.

meritocrat · 08-11-2003, 06:01 AM

Contradiction, no? Didn't you start a thread stating that democracy is the 'ultimate form of government'.

ohwilleke · 08-11-2003, 08:37 AM

I think that my hierarchy goes something like this:

Healthy Representative Democracy or Constitutional Monarchy.
Healthy Direct Democracy (Swiss are closest model)
Monarchy w/ limited Democratic role (UAE, Papacy or 1700 Britian).
Dominant Party Rep. Democracy (like 1960s Mexico or India)
Secure One Party System (e.g. China or Cuba or post-Stalin USSR)
Absolute Monarchy (e.g. Saudi or Nepal now, 1920s Thailand)
Dicatatorship which is not genocidal (e.g. Burma or Pakistan)
Grossly Incompetent Representative Democracy (like pre-coup governments throughout third world).
Unhealthy Direct Democracy (Salem in 1600s or French Revolution)
Genocidal Dictatorship (Pol Pot, Stalin, Rwanda, Hitler)

ohwilleke · 08-11-2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sakrilege
some dictatorships

catholic church
southern baptists
jim jones
david koresh
mormons

Southern Baptists are actually extremely Democratic. Every church has a right to drop out at will. Leaders are elected. Central policy does not bind local churches. It is a huge contrast with the other four examples that at least formally had a supreme leader.

The college of cardinals in the Catholic church, and similar consultive bodies among the Mormons, while not precisely democratically elected, make these bodies more democratic than Jim Jones or Koresh.

anti-X · 08-11-2003, 10:46 AM

I will probably regret posting this sometime in the future because of all the evil-gelicals that monitor these sights...

but it is good to remember what Stalin said about "democracy":
"it is he who counts the votes that wins" !

How many of you vote inside a church? Hmmmm?

sakrilege · 08-11-2003, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ohwilleke
Southern Baptists are actually extremely Democratic. Every church has a right to drop out at will. Leaders are elected. Central policy does not bind local churches.

I was thinking along the lines of the Disney boycott and Baptist Board. Do individual members vote for the leaders?

Quote:

The college of cardinals in the Catholic church, and similar consultive bodies among the Mormons, while not precisely democratically elected, make these bodies more democratic than Jim Jones or Koresh.

At least for the catholics, the cardinal choice is heavily influenced by the pope, stacking the deck toward his outlook. I don't know about the mormons.

Other organizations:

Military
CEOs/Corporations - other than share holder voting

View Poll Results: Dictatorship or Democracy?
Dictatorship	14	26.92%
Democracy	38	73.08%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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08-11-2003, 01:52 AM	#22
sakrilege Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Folding@Home Godless Team Posts: 6,211	some dictatorships catholic church southern baptists jim jones david koresh mormons

08-11-2003, 05:58 AM	#25
conkermaniac Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: American in China Posts: 620	The best form of government is a benevolent dictatorship. In general, though, a democracy is better than a dictatorship. I guess I'll just remain undecided on this one.

08-11-2003, 06:01 AM	#26
meritocrat Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 2,608	Contradiction, no? Didn't you start a thread stating that democracy is the 'ultimate form of government'.

08-11-2003, 08:37 AM	#27
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	I think that my hierarchy goes something like this: Healthy Representative Democracy or Constitutional Monarchy. Healthy Direct Democracy (Swiss are closest model) Monarchy w/ limited Democratic role (UAE, Papacy or 1700 Britian). Dominant Party Rep. Democracy (like 1960s Mexico or India) Secure One Party System (e.g. China or Cuba or post-Stalin USSR) Absolute Monarchy (e.g. Saudi or Nepal now, 1920s Thailand) Dicatatorship which is not genocidal (e.g. Burma or Pakistan) Grossly Incompetent Representative Democracy (like pre-coup governments throughout third world). Unhealthy Direct Democracy (Salem in 1600s or French Revolution) Genocidal Dictatorship (Pol Pot, Stalin, Rwanda, Hitler)

08-11-2003, 10:46 AM	#29
anti-X Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 462	I will probably regret posting this sometime in the future because of all the evil-gelicals that monitor these sights... but it is good to remember what Stalin said about "democracy": "it is he who counts the votes that wins" ! How many of you vote inside a church? Hmmmm?

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