Clarice

My husband has told me that I am . . . harsh when it comes to discussions of bullshi - er, less-than-rational beliefs, and that it discomfits him. I'm trying to craft a diplomatic approach that will avoid scaring people or bothering him, without undermining my own integrity. And I want your help.

The incident that precipitated our conversation went something like this (note I was deliberately keeping a light tone through this - I wasn't doing my cross-examining attorney routine or anything):

Casual Acquaintance: Oh, I can tell it's a girl because you're carrying so high.
Me: Actually, that's just an old wives' tale.
CA: No, it works - I've been right every time I've used that method to predict the sex of babies.
Me: How many times is that?
CA: Three times.
Me: *chuckle* Well, I think your sample size is a little small. Besides, we tend to remember our successes and forget our failures.

Evidently, my responses in that exchange kind of scared the Casual Acquaintance.

I have an impulse to bring the light of critical thought and rationality to all people. My husband pointed out that this can be analogous to obnoxious religious proselytizers who think that me saying "I'm an atheist" is an invitation to their indoctrination attempts. I can see that point of view. So one question is when are people open to actual discussion and debate on a subject, and when are they just going about their business and suddenly getting attacked by me (from their point of view).

The other question is how to respond to bunk assertions without giving implicit support to them, while also not starting a debate. I feel that silence in the face of stuff like this gives the impression that I agree, and I'm not comfortable with that.

I do admit that I tend to debate in the fashion of lions "debating" with gazelles over what's for dinner, so I'm open to criticism on this issue. But damn it, I thought I was dialing it way back in that conversation!

BioBeing

First off - comments like that would drive my wife crazy. One minute she would be accosted by a stranger in a store telling her it was a girl, and the next minute someone would be telling her it was a boy. Both would be adamant. Even after we have the results of the genetics tests which obviously proved the sex, people would still say "ahh yes, but those are sometimes wrong". And old wives tales never are, by extension? :banghead:

Second - I too am accused of being too harsh in that kind of conversation. My wife just lets it go, but I, like you it seems, want to try and explain to the people why they are wrong. However - I think they don't want a discussion on it. They say it out of tradition/habit without thinking, and then when confronted, will not admit defeat and lose face. My main defense nowadays is to just bite my tongue, but sometimes I really want to bash them around the head with a piece of clue-by-four...

Jewel

I think your husband is over reacting.

Zora

I used to just say nothing, but realized that pretended agreement, even if it is only in the form of silence, is dishonest. I don't TRY to get involved in these type discussions, but I have the same right to my opinion as the other person. I do not have to sit silently while stupid things are said..racial/ethnic/religious slurs, etc. In fact, I have a moral obligation to voice my disagreement. Some things are not important enough to argue about..so a humorous response works well enough. (My neighbor doesn't have homeowners insurance because "God is my insurance policy." I just said, "Really? Our mortgage company insisted on State Farm.") Tell your husband to chill!

B34RZ0R

Hi Clarice,

"So one question is when are people open to actual discussion and debate on a subject, and when are they just going about their business and suddenly getting attacked by me (from their point of view). "


First when I am in this situation it is me attacking not you

But I would say people in general (In My experience) are rarely open to debate/critical thought on any given subject. I have found it makes some just LIVID to have someone question their stance.. OYE did I find that out with this little war we just had When you get into religious discussions BioBeing stated it right "They say it out of tradition/habit without thinking"
A girl I was kind of "seeing" was a skin deep Xian and when we sat down and had a pretty deep conversation I could see the gears shaking off rust through her eyes.. then she hopped on my lap and kissed me... *now if only all debates could end so well*
I think people don't like critical thought.. if you question it there is a chance you could find out that it is BS!! I'm sure that is scary when you have just blindly fallowed something like that for all of your life.



"The other question is how to respond to bunk assertions without giving implicit support to them, while also not starting a debate. I feel that silence in the face of stuff like this gives the impression that I agree, and I'm not comfortable with that. "

I say voice your opinion, it only helps to promote others to join in and maybe you will get to know some people you are 'friends/co-workers/neighbor's with. Sadly when I get into discussion on my being an Atheist (I am pretty vocal + the T-shirt that says ATHEIST on it!) I am usually out numbered and I find myself arguing the point to a group of people that don't think critically anyway. I find myself popping up little WTFs to friends and family alike when they shoot up racial/sexual hate-words and that will usually either shut them up or move them to another topic.. gotta love those compassionate Xian's

"I have bit my tongue so much that I cant taste their bitterness from my responses"

Be Well

*Bear*

***YAY I just hit 200 posts***

Godless Dave

Me too. People don't have an inalienable right to be stupid.

Walross

I agree with GD. If someone is going around saying stupid things, then they fully deserve to be made to feel stupid. Consider it a public service - most morons are unaware that they are morons. By making them aware of this, you are giving them the opportunity to re-evaluate themselves (though most probably won't).

Walross

christ-on-a-stick

I agree that your husband is over-reacting - your responses seemed anything but harsh! It doesn't sound like you were "attacking" her in the slightest - unless she is ubersensitive I can't see why she would take it that way - and for the life of me I've never been able to understand the mindset some people have that polite disagreement is somehow rude.

I say keep on sowin' those seeds of reason!!! You have nothing to apologize for.

manderguy

The funny thing I�ve noticed is that you can question people�s views on a subject like the tax cuts or something, and that�s OK. But when you debunk some stupid bit of nonsense like an old wives tale or astrology or something, you�re a bad guy/girl.

I think it�s something about how dearly they hold their superstitions, and I don�t understand why you�d hold something like that so dearly.

In most places it seems nobody likes the skeptic.

Eh. Anyway, I�ve been scolded for similar incidents. I usually limit my debunking to small things. For example, a good friend of mine is very into esoteric healing. It�s pure BS, but I just keep my trap shut when she�s talking about it with people. She did make a crack once that demonstrated she figured that I thought it was BS. That�s probably why she doesn�t really talk about it to me.

BadBadBad

There are two extremes in dealing with conflict. Either jump in head first, damn the consequences, or run and hide. I'm a jump in head first kind of person and my wife is a run and hide person. Run and hide people think the head first folks are rude, egotistical, and socially unacceptable (although they sure wish they could stand up for themselves like the head first guys). The head first folks think the run and hide folks are weak cowards who get run over all there life by everyone they encounter (although they sure do seem to have more friends). It seems though that the run and hide folks are in the majority and therefore define us head first folks as politically incorrect social outcasts! Face it. We're in the minority, if you want to get along, run and hide.

I have a French friend, who gets in trouble with conflict here in the US just like me, and he's had quite a bit of culture shock over it. He assure's me that we'd get along a lot better in France. That's kind of interesting that in other parts of the world, that conflict is looked at so differently.