tommyc

I don't find racist jokes offensive myself unless they are quite severe and said with mallice, its just not something that shocks me at all. Im not saying I find them funny, but I just don't have a natural shock reaction to them. I'm also not saying that you shouldn't have a shock reaction either, its just that I don't.

Quote:

Bush isn't made fun of because he is southern, its because he's an ignorant, superstitious moron who happens to be southern. Praise Be To The EAC

I think you have to be a little more honest here and admit that his accent doesn't help. Why when people make jokes about him do they concentrate on his accent as a way of increasing the ridicule factor?

Has anyone seen the southern hick family in the simpsons? I'm sure a lot of posters here have laughed at the scenes with the southern redneck family who talk with ridiculous southern accents and barely have a brain cell between them. I laughed, anyway. Sure, its not really racist, as most of the simpsons' viewers will be american, but its blatantly prejudiced.

kwigibo

I think that's a bit unfair. A thick new york/new england accent can be ridiculed similarly. How often is the californian 'surfer' voice abused as a sign of low intellect?. Personally, i know people with very heavy australian accents that make them sound dumb, but only because they stumble around the language. The fact is, there is an unfortunate correlation between accents like bush's and linguistic inability. Then again, there are southerners that are excellent orators who don't sound dumb(look at Clinton), but, are undeniably southern, and i think most accents possess this dichotomy. The problem with bush is that he has poor language skills, and that just accentuates his accent, he's nothing but a texan Vinnie Barbarino.

tommyc

But I think the point still stands that people accept ridicule of some groups in society about their accents, but find ridicule of certain other groups to be unacceptable.

kwigibo

I don't think it does, an accent by itself is hardly a cause of ridicule. If you speak well, i can't think of an accent that can detract from that. I don't think this is just personal opinion. I don't remember hearing anyone ridicule Bill Clinton like they ridicule Bush jr, yet they both have undeniably southern accents. The difference being that Clinton is probably a lot smarter, and is definitely a better speaker. I don't think their exists a ridicule of accents in general. If you employ an abundance of lazy colloquialism or just stumble and slur, as Bush regularly does, you will be open to ridicule, but as long as you pronounce words correctly and use correct grammar, very few people will ridicule you on the basis of your speech. Southern accents do not make people sound stupid in the minds of those who ridicule, it's southern language, IMO, and i believe there's a difference.

tommyc

hmmm, yes I see what you're saying here actually. I suppose the George Bush was perhaps not example of the point I was trying to make. I do think there exists a certain prejudice against accents, I know there does in England certainly. There is often ridicule of people who live in rural areas, and certain towns, especially exagerrated by the north/south divide. I think the effect it has all depends on whether the person you are taking the piss out of has a sense of humour or not.

tommyc

Sorry, I have to point out a blatant contradiction you made in your last two posts:
*hides in hope that he hasn't made any contradictions himself*

kwigibo

Blatant is a little harsh, but to clarify, i misused 'accent' there. it connects with my point about the correlation of the language used and the accent. The new york accent by itself is not ridiculed, but a new york accent employing the local slang, lazy pronunciation and bad grammar, is viewed and presented as rather dumb. My point there was only that the southern accent was not alone, that all accents when in correllation with the aforementioned language problems will sound just as unintelligent. There is no real prejudice on accent alone, at least not when english is the first language.

There may be a prejudice against a certain region, where accent is an identifier, i think this is what you really mean. eg; "I think all southerners are stupid, you sound like a southerner, therefore, you're stupid" is different to "Your accent sounds stupid"

kwigibo

The same stands for the english. A yorkshireman might be ridiculed for the way he speaks, but it probably has more to do with his omission of certain pronouns in his sentences than his pronunciation of vowel sounds. But, no matter how he speaks, when someone has a prejudice against northerners that has nothing to do with language, and they hear his voice, they make a connection.

Back to the initial point, i don't think when people ridicule Bush it has anything to do with his accent. If he were from York, New York, or New Zealand, he'd still say stupid things and he'd still butcher the english language. If he were raised in Oxford he wouldn't sound any more compelling. If he pumped petrol, no one would make fun of him, they wouldn't expect any more of him than he exhibits.

(but he's wants to get his hands on a much bigger petrol pump, and that's scary, if you'll excuse the tangent )

tommyc

Sorry, "blatant" was a little strong. And yes, I think you're right, there is prejudice against certain regions, and the accent is the most immediate identifier for which region you come from in a country, so that in turn may be associated with the prejudice about that region. I still think certain accents project a certain image however:
Extract from this article on the BBC website:

and notice that here they are not talking about badly spoken English, just English with a regional tilt.

kwigibo

But the prejudice is still regional isn't it, 'Scousers considered to be less hardworking'. Were the businessmen to possess no regional prejudices, would they think the same on the basis of tilt? They think they're untrustworthy because of where they're from, not how they speak, we can agree on that right? they're not rejected because of their accent, because the prejudice is not against the accent.