Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Loren Pechtel · 03-30-2003, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slept2long
Loren, that's the kind of thing I am talking about. Do you know if anyone has ever tried to iron out the details involved in financing such a system? I've only heard it explained in loose terms like you used.

I've never seen it in detail, either.

emphryio · 03-30-2003, 10:58 AM

Quote:

I'm going to log off right now and start the ball rolling on that action in Denver.

Cool. I imagine you know people and whatnot living in or near a big city.

Slept2long and Loren
I don't think "adequate" campaign financing will ever happen until the mainstream media starts actually doing some investigative reporting of the links between politicians and corporations.

So I'm saying the media needs fixed first and foremost. Which is why I started this thread to talk about protesting media.

Fanny once again seems to have the right idea.
I'd be curious to know how the ball gets started rolling.....? I guess you know people, an organization in your area?

John Hancock · 03-30-2003, 11:13 AM

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Arson?
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slept2long · 03-31-2003, 04:58 AM

Emphryio, I don't know what Fanny's got in mind but citizen petitions are what I am looking into here in Florida.

I know what your saying about fixing the media before public campaign financing can occur but I disagree. I think the opposite is the case. Protesting the media is like protesting the pledge. Nobody gives a shit because they don't understand the truth behind the story. If you had candidates who weren't whores to the corparations that run the media then I believe the possibility exists to make the media due your bidding. I know that contradicts what I have said before about the media spinning whatever you try and get them to report on but I think elections make people look at issues differently than they usually do. Perhaps if a candidate was able, through public campaign financing, to get out a fact here or there to large numbers of people then spin by ther media might become more visable. Maybe a candidate could even include something on there disgust at the level of complacency the media have toward the governement and it's official story. Evidence abounds that confirms this. Why not use a run for office as an opportunity to further educate the public about the world they don't know they live in? If you win even better.

Eerrrrr .I just re-read my post, like I always do before posting, and changed my mind. If people can't hear about the facts surrounding an issue they can't be expected to support it. Guess the media must be fixed or an alternative found. I am gonna leave what I posted before I changed my mind in case anyone wishes to comment.

Slept2long

paul30 · 03-31-2003, 05:34 AM

Emphyrio,

I think you have very good points.

One has only to go on the internet and read media from other countries to see what a different planet they are reporting.

It is clear why 70% support Bush's war in the US--they are fed constant propaganda by US media, which have become in effect a Ministry of Propaganda.

If you go to the media in other countries, they report everything; hence people are getting enough of the picture to judge for themeselves; hence 80% to 90% of the rest of the world OPPOSE Bush's war.

The trend toward Right Wing media in the US has gone on for a long time. But it got a quantum boost during the Reagan years when the FCC threw out the Fairness Doctrine: after that the rightwing shouters (Limbaugh, Liddy, Hannity, Dr. Laura, all the rest) reigned unopposed. It got a second quantum boost in 1996 when ownership rules were relaxed, allowing near-monopoly ownership for giants like Clear Channel, which is fervently right wing and sponsors huge Nuremburg-Nazi-like pro-war rallies.

There are things you can do.

Demand that Congress take control of the FCC and rescind the giveaway of the public airwaves to Right Wing conglomerates. This will not happen overnight, because the media will fight it tooth and commercial--just as they fought national health care under Clinton, leaving the US with the most expensive and worst distributed health (?) care of any industrialized country (all for the benefit of the insurance companies; what's more important, the health of the people or the health of their profits?--you got it, the latter!)

Demand that the Fairness Doctrine be re-instated.

Demand that Ownership Rules be re-instated, preventing the media from being owned by four or five large companies.

Demand that a certain (high) percentage of media be locally owned and run. Clear Channel, which owns about half the US's radio stations, is famous not only for its fascist politics but for firing all local people and broadcasting canned material made in Arizona.

admice · 03-31-2003, 01:40 PM

Yes, Paul 30. Doing more research (how depressing and angering) I come even more to the conclusion that the media needs to be reformed first. I read about all the FCC deregulation that caused most of the problem. I'm going to try to get as many groups as i can in my state to lobby congress to reinstate those regulations.

Loren, you're suggestions would be good except who would sign a petition for someone they don't know anything about? First people have to be informed about candidates. The media used to do a pretty good job when I was a kid. And they used to have to give free, equal time.

Campaign finance reform will never close all the gaps. The rich and powerful will always find a way to donate (like, give their employees a raise designated to be contributed to a politician or whatever)

And all the other problems: unethical global corporations, the truth about Bush's plans, the truth about the chickenhawk's plans, the truth about the last election would all be exposed which would help cause their demise.

So I guess one thing I'm saying is in addition to working however you do about CHurch/state separation, consider petitioning or lobbying congress about FCC regulation.

Good to know other people care and are taking action

Loren Pechtel · 03-31-2003, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by admice
Loren, you're suggestions would be good except who would sign a petition for someone they don't know anything about? First people have to be informed about candidates. The media used to do a pretty good job when I was a kid. And they used to have to give free, equal time.

Depends on the petition. I'll always sign one from a candidate trying to get on the ballot.

Campaign finance reform will never close all the gaps. The rich and powerful will always find a way to donate (like, give their employees a raise designated to be contributed to a politician or whatever)

If you go to a system of 100% public funding you get around this problem.

03-31-2003, 05:34 AM	#35
paul30 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA USA Posts: 870	take back the fcc Emphyrio, I think you have very good points. One has only to go on the internet and read media from other countries to see what a different planet they are reporting. It is clear why 70% support Bush's war in the US--they are fed constant propaganda by US media, which have become in effect a Ministry of Propaganda. If you go to the media in other countries, they report everything; hence people are getting enough of the picture to judge for themeselves; hence 80% to 90% of the rest of the world OPPOSE Bush's war. The trend toward Right Wing media in the US has gone on for a long time. But it got a quantum boost during the Reagan years when the FCC threw out the Fairness Doctrine: after that the rightwing shouters (Limbaugh, Liddy, Hannity, Dr. Laura, all the rest) reigned unopposed. It got a second quantum boost in 1996 when ownership rules were relaxed, allowing near-monopoly ownership for giants like Clear Channel, which is fervently right wing and sponsors huge Nuremburg-Nazi-like pro-war rallies. There are things you can do. Demand that Congress take control of the FCC and rescind the giveaway of the public airwaves to Right Wing conglomerates. This will not happen overnight, because the media will fight it tooth and commercial--just as they fought national health care under Clinton, leaving the US with the most expensive and worst distributed health (?) care of any industrialized country (all for the benefit of the insurance companies; what's more important, the health of the people or the health of their profits?--you got it, the latter!) Demand that the Fairness Doctrine be re-instated. Demand that Ownership Rules be re-instated, preventing the media from being owned by four or five large companies. Demand that a certain (high) percentage of media be locally owned and run. Clear Channel, which owns about half the US's radio stations, is famous not only for its fascist politics but for firing all local people and broadcasting canned material made in Arizona.

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03-30-2003, 11:13 AM	#33
John Hancock Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 2,231	_________________________________________________ Quote "ELF" Arson? _______________________________________________ Martin Buber

03-31-2003, 04:58 AM	#34
slept2long Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 1,066	Emphryio, I don't know what Fanny's got in mind but citizen petitions are what I am looking into here in Florida. I know what your saying about fixing the media before public campaign financing can occur but I disagree. I think the opposite is the case. Protesting the media is like protesting the pledge. Nobody gives a shit because they don't understand the truth behind the story. If you had candidates who weren't whores to the corparations that run the media then I believe the possibility exists to make the media due your bidding. I know that contradicts what I have said before about the media spinning whatever you try and get them to report on but I think elections make people look at issues differently than they usually do. Perhaps if a candidate was able, through public campaign financing, to get out a fact here or there to large numbers of people then spin by ther media might become more visable. Maybe a candidate could even include something on there disgust at the level of complacency the media have toward the governement and it's official story. Evidence abounds that confirms this. Why not use a run for office as an opportunity to further educate the public about the world they don't know they live in? If you win even better. Eerrrrr .I just re-read my post, like I always do before posting, and changed my mind. If people can't hear about the facts surrounding an issue they can't be expected to support it. Guess the media must be fixed or an alternative found. I am gonna leave what I posted before I changed my mind in case anyone wishes to comment. Slept2long

03-31-2003, 01:40 PM	#36
admice Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: S Cal Posts: 327	Yes, Paul 30. Doing more research (how depressing and angering) I come even more to the conclusion that the media needs to be reformed first. I read about all the FCC deregulation that caused most of the problem. I'm going to try to get as many groups as i can in my state to lobby congress to reinstate those regulations. Loren, you're suggestions would be good except who would sign a petition for someone they don't know anything about? First people have to be informed about candidates. The media used to do a pretty good job when I was a kid. And they used to have to give free, equal time. Campaign finance reform will never close all the gaps. The rich and powerful will always find a way to donate (like, give their employees a raise designated to be contributed to a politician or whatever) And all the other problems: unethical global corporations, the truth about Bush's plans, the truth about the chickenhawk's plans, the truth about the last election would all be exposed which would help cause their demise. So I guess one thing I'm saying is in addition to working however you do about CHurch/state separation, consider petitioning or lobbying congress about FCC regulation. Good to know other people care and are taking action

03-31-2003, 09:54 PM	#37
Loren Pechtel Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Not Mayaned Posts: 96,752	Originally posted by admice Loren, you're suggestions would be good except who would sign a petition for someone they don't know anything about? First people have to be informed about candidates. The media used to do a pretty good job when I was a kid. And they used to have to give free, equal time. Depends on the petition. I'll always sign one from a candidate trying to get on the ballot. Campaign finance reform will never close all the gaps. The rich and powerful will always find a way to donate (like, give their employees a raise designated to be contributed to a politician or whatever) If you go to a system of 100% public funding you get around this problem.

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