Biff the unclean

There is a difference between illiteracy and stupidity.
They weren't illiterate--illiteracy didn't become the norm until the Church made it so. These people were forbidden to read the bible by the clergy. The NT was a magic book that only they could own.

Somehow you think that people living in the first century had miniscule brains.
Your contention is that the Xians in the end of the first century must have realized that oft repeated prophecy was false so they made up a lie about what it said. Therefore you should make up a lie too. It is not the size of your predecessor's brains that is in question here.

They would have had the same problem Biff has with being obviously lied to. Christianity would have tanked. And badly. And very quickly.
Then why when today's Xians get false prophecies of the end of the world do they not care when the date comes and goes?

Reason that did not happen most obviously is that, even though for the most part illiterate, they were essentially much smarter and cleverer than Biff. And they never took the "this generation shall not pass away" in any kind of stick-in-the-mud literate sense as Biff is wont to do.
You really have a problem with your morality. First they did believe that it was literal. That wandering Jew story was invented to explain why the prophecy is literal.
Second what you call " stick-in-the-mud literate sense" is called honesty. What you are trying to pass off as "non literal" is what is known as LYING.

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Early Christians were encouraged to read and study the Scriptures for themselves.
That would be the OT. They were forbidden to read the NT by the Church
It was only much later the catholic church convinced everyone that only the priests could interpret the bible
Protestant anti-Catholic fantasy.

Acts 17, 2 Timothy 3
Obviously talking about the OT. Since this is mentioned in the NT the NT could not possibly be the scriptures being talked about



The Wandering Jew is just like any other myth.
That's right a myth invented to explain away the false prophecies that Jesus makes. A story not in the bible explaining away obvious problems the bible has. Exactly the same thing you are doing, only without distorting what the bible itself says.

Can you tell me exactly where the Wandering Jew myth originated?
No, it can be traced back to the fourth century and is assumed to be older still.

If not, than why do you make the assumption of church conspiracy to explain a so-called problematic text in the bible.
I love when Xians call any crap the church has pulled a "conspiracy" implying that such things weren't common place in the church and aren't still.
If it was such a problem, then it would be so much easier to eliminate it, don’t you think?
Apparently by the behavior of those Xians on this board it isn't a problem. It's a false prophecy repeated more than a dozen times in clear and simple language. Yet all of you Xians close your eyes, stick you fingers in your ears and then lie through your teeth about what the bible says. Why should the church bother to fix it when they have already programmed their robots not to recognize it? And you robots have the nerve to demand that everyone else ignore or distort what the bible so clearly says--because the bible clearly is not telling the truth.

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Mt.16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
* Mt.23:36 "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."
* Mt.24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
* Mt.26:64 "Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
* Mk.9:1 "Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."
* Mk.13:30 "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."
* Mk.14:62 "And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
* Lk.9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."
* Lk.21:32 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."
* Jn.21:22 "Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry (stay alive) till I come, what is that to thee?"
* 1 Cor.1:7-8 "Waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ ... that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
* 1 Cor.7:29 "But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none."
* Phil.1:10 "That ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. (Paul was addressing the Philippians.)
* Phil.4:5 "The Lord is at hand.
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Again and again it says THIS generation, the people standing right here. Nowhere does it say eighty generations from not. Nowhere does it say people on an undiscovered continent thousands of years in the future.
And nowhere is it correct.
The rapture/second coming didn't happen. It's not going to happen. Your story is a fake and you know your story is a fake otherwise you wouldn't be so desperate that it be distorted form what it so clearly says.
Are any of you having trouble reading or understanding what the bold type in all those Jesus quotes above says? Is it obscure in anyway? Do you see any reason-other than it is a false prophecy- that it should not be taken literally? Remember it's a sin to lie.

Rational BAC

That was pretty good for the most part, (at least in the many Biblical quotes) Biff.

(I like to give credit where credit is due)

Magus ------where are you when I need you?

Spaz

I fixed it for ya Magus...

Magus55

Actually, not true. During the time of the Roman Empire, the majority of the population was illiterate and in poverty. Only about 10% could read and write, and afford education/books - and the majority of that 10% was Roman officials and the aristocracy.

Very illogical argument. The apostles died greusome deaths for proclaiming the truth of Jesus and spreading the message of the Bible. They weren't dumb enough to spread around a message that they knew was a lie because they made it up. You seem to be forgetting in the beginnings of Christianity, being a Christian and worshiping Jesus was treason. Where do you think the Ithycus ( fish symbol) came from? Christians used that as a secret symbol to recognize other christians, instead of the bold message of the cross, for which the Romans would persecute them for. The Apostles would not make up prophecies, go out among the people and boldly proclaim the message of Christianity, only to face excrutiating deaths, all over a lie that they made up. Thats stupid and illogical and you know it.

Maybe because we are fully aware that there is no known date for the end of the world and Jesus' Second coming? Jesus said no one but the Father knows the date or time of His return. It can't be a false prophecy since no one knows the end times. Most Christians look forward to Jesus' return, but they don't worry about the date since there is none. Only God knows the date, no one else.



afaik, the doctrine from the Catholic Church stating only the Magisterium could read and interpret scripture, didn't come until later in the Catholic church's history. Do you have resources siting that the 1st and 2nd century Church weren't allowed to read scripture?






Matt 16 is about Jesus Transifiguration. How many times do we have to explain this to you? Jesus told His disciples ( those that stand here), that they shall not pass until the Son of Man (Jesus) comes in His kingdom. After Jesus said this, it was 6 days until His actual transifiguration. Jesus said those that stand here won't die until the kingdom comes. The Kingdom came at jesus' ressurection and ascension to Heaven later. The Father approved of the plan Jesus was about to go through, to the 3 on the mountain during the Transfiguration
.
The verse in Matt 24 is talking about the generation that sees the end times. Jesus describes the end times signs before this verse, and then says, Verily i say, this generation [the one Jesus is referring to, not the present one] will not pass until these signs i speak of are fullfilled. The signs never came in the Apostles lives or they would have written it down. They knew very well Jesus wasn' talking about them, He was telling them what to write for future generations.

Read Matt 24 from your perspective to yourself : *Jesus speaks of the signs in previous verses*, "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass till these things are fullfilled", If you are the generation reading Matt 24, and you see those signs, then you know Jesus was referring to you, because you are "this generation".

Biff the unclean

Actually, not true. During the time of the Roman Empire, the majority of the population was illiterate and in poverty.
In post Christian Rome, not Pagan Rome where even most household slaves were literate. And since you are talking about Jews turned Christian then the literacy rate would be close to 100%. But that does not change the fact that lay people were forbidden to read the NT by the Church

The apostles died greusome deaths for proclaiming the truth of Jesus and spreading the message of the Bible.
The Apostles are fictional characters

They weren't dumb enough to spread around a message that they knew was a lie because they made it up.
They weren't real enough either.
Where do you think the Ithycus ( fish symbol) came from?
I know precisely where it comes from. It is the Zodiac sign Pisces, which in Roman days was a single fish. It is the sign of rebirth and the emblem of the followers of Apollonius of Tyana that worshiped one of the many Pagan "Christs" and had nothing to do with the followers of Jesus.

Maybe because we are fully aware that there is no known date for the end of the world and Jesus' Second coming?
No exact date, but a general time frame…within the lifetimes of those present. This must have been a very important point because it was repeated so many times. Eighty generations later we are safe to say that no matter how often the bible repeated this promise it never happen. The whole thing is a fake.

afaik, the doctrine from the Catholic Church stating only the Magisterium could read and interpret scripture, didn't come until later in the Catholic church's history.
It was a continuation of standard church policy. Or do you think this is a Catholic conspiracy?

Matt 16 is about Jesus Transifiguration. How many times do we have to explain this to you?
Matt 17 is about the Transfiguration. Matt 16 is about the second coming. Please stop your pathetic lying.
The verse in Matt 24 is talking about the generation that sees the end times.
That's why it say THIS and not SOME FUTURE. The end was supposed to come 2000 years ago and it didn't.

They knew very well Jesus wasn' talking about them, He was telling them what to write for future generations.
The bible says no such thing. It couldn't make itself any clearer that it doesn't mean that.
You really are shameless when you carry on so about we Atheists not believing the bible when it is painfully obvious that YOU don't believe the bible. If you believed it you wouldn't be so desperate to spin doctor what it so clearly says into something it doesn't.

unregistered_user_1

HAH! You think Magus is bad? If you go to RR, you'll see WAY worse.

Elizabeth_S, FirstCor123, JimB, Rom831, etc.

(or just go to http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/fstdt.htm) to get the gist of what they're like.

To picture it, just pretend that most of the people there are like "Socrates" on TW, only less restrained, some of them. But ALL with the same level of "confidence" that THEY are right!

unregistered_user_1

That, and one would think that if jesus was referring to when he's going to meet 2 guys on a mountain, that he'd have fricken SAID so! He never did. That, and he's always supposed to "say what he means and means what he says" in fundy view. Why didn't he here? Unless the xians are just trying to dodge a failed prophecy.

One explanation I've heard (from RR of course) when I used to lurk there (I'm too scared to post!) is that the transfiguration was when christ recieved "power" officially over the "kingdom" and therefore that "prophecy" was fulfilled! ~~>"come into power" or "come in power"! Someone pointed out some Hebrew words or something. It was said (I think) that all was needed was that "acknowldegement" that did it. Why one couldn't have said that at the "baptism" scene where god himself was to have spoken, though, I don't know.

Then there's the context about the angels coming with him to judge, etc.

unregistered_user_1

If they are already changed on the inside then why in hell do they (like the rest of US), still keep sinning? The most you can see is that it's a "work in progress" which could apply just as well to a person trying to change him/herself, and not some supernatural outside agency.

Rational BAC

I went through a few of those posts ( I assume they were the worst of the worst) on your link.

I got a kick out of the "I'd rather be a heartless fundy than a brainless liberal Christian"---or something like that.

I might try RaptureReady someday. I don't think they would like this cherry picking and very liberal Christian very much though.

Rational BAC

I just tried raptureready.com real quickly.

Definitely you have chosen the worst of the worst on that site.

I read an excellent disclaimer there about the age of the Earth being only 6000 years. Very well done actually.