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04-24-2003, 11:16 AM | #1 | |
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Need info on Lucy & help shutting up some annoying cretinists.
At the message board for my local newspaper's website, there have been several drawn out discussions between evolutionists like myself and several creationists (all young-Earthers). One of them who goes by the name "johnboy" asked me this question about Lucy:
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Also, is anyone interested in helping to try to shut up the creationists, or it the simple act of debating them a futile effort? I'm beginning to find it a waste of my time, and I think Richard Dawkins' advice in his article "Why I won't debate creationists" is sounding better all the time. |
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04-24-2003, 11:50 AM | #2 |
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I do believe female apes have distinguishing characteristics from male ones all over the skeleton, but I haven't seen this one before. Do a search on TalkOrigins.
Also, if your ISP's forum is accessible to the public, do send me the dumbest posts by the cretos and links, please |
04-24-2003, 11:59 AM | #3 | ||
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Re: Need info on Lucy & help shutting up some annoying cretinists.
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http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/lucy.html ...they found 40% of her skeleton. It's more than enough to determine her sex, age, species, and numerous other characteristics. Other info at that page and its links will help. Quote:
theyeti |
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04-24-2003, 11:59 AM | #4 |
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I believe the reason Lucy is suspected to be female is because of her size. She is much smaller than other adult members of her species.
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04-24-2003, 12:17 PM | #5 |
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Ah, dear old "Disgusta." I taught at MCG in the '80s. I even posted occasionally on the Chronicle's BB. If you go over to "Cafe Natural" on a Friday PM, there might be a group of folks in the back tables (past the bar). If the place is still open, and if the folks are still meeting there, you might have some fun meeting like minded people. Or, give Les Pollard a call over at Paine College and find out where the Friday group is meeting these days (Say Hi from Gary.)
The Lucy information should be available at : http://www.becominghuman.org/ http://www.modernhumanorigins.com/ http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/ http://www.asu.edu/clas/iho/ Or Johanson and Edey's book "Lucy" The "Lucy" skeleton itself has the left inominate and femer, and the sacrum which easily establish these to be from a female who was bipedal, and the nearly intact mandible which provides an age guidline. Note that the third molar is fully erupted, but there is little wear (plate 13, and 14 "Lucy"). There are many additional bones of this skeleton, but they don't add more information as to sex or age. The one lumbar vertebra also indicates an erect posture. There are of course many other A. afarensis fossils which confirm the diagnosis of the Lucy skeleton. |
04-24-2003, 12:20 PM | #6 |
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I thought the shape of the pelvis had a lot do with determining the sex of a skeleton.
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04-24-2003, 12:25 PM | #7 |
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The sacrum is part of the pelvis.
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04-24-2003, 12:32 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
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04-24-2003, 01:26 PM | #9 |
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Interesting. Thanks for the reference Dr. Lao. Without a scale, or comparitive material, it is difficult to tell from a photo, but the "lucy" sacrum does look a bit wide to me. None of the photos I have seen are from the proper viewpoints to determine sex of the "lucy" individual from the innominate.
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04-24-2003, 01:55 PM | #10 |
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There was a researcher in the mid-90s that published the suggestion that Lucy was male, but that is not taken very seriously. There was an article published to refute it. Its PubMed entry is here. Some people might be able to read the article their if they have an university account. Otherwise go to the library or pay the publisher online access.
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