Calzaer

I'm an avid D&D fan. I usually hate computer roleplaying, because I like rolling my own dice and I always have a sneaking suspicion that the computer cheats.

In spite of this, I finally caved in and bought Neverwinter Nights. And this is the first time I can *prove* the computer is cheating. Aside from the fact that a bad guy could do an aerobics workout on a trap-trigger square and never set the damn thing off.

The experience progression table is identical to the pencil and paper system. 10k exp to get to level 5. But the exp rewarded for monster kills is screwed beyond belief.

I want to return the game, I'm so disgusted. My 2 person party, combined level of 7, is fighting an Intellect Devourer. The CR on that sucker is AT LEAST 9. According to the charts, my characters should have gotten 1800xp each for killing it (and that's assuming we're playing under "henchmen get xp" rules). How much did I get? 200.

Everyone I know just RAVES about it... would worship it on an altar and/or have its children, even the ones who play pen and paper D&D. How the hell can they justify having the same progression requirements and 1/10th of the progression speed?

If it weren't trying to pretend to be a game I love, I wouldn't care. But I know the goddamned rules for D&D. This piece of crap is exactly why I don't let a computer be my DM.

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why the appeal is so great, when the rules are obviously and horribly distorted from actual D&D? Forget the fact that real-time combat is a travesty when applied to the RPG world. Forget the fact that my options are limited and the story is 100% linear. Why can't they even get the RULES right?

I knew better. I really did. I should have gotten "Enclave", it was the same price and isn't pretending to be D&D.

August Spies

this may be obvious but it needs to be said.

Dorkiest. Post. Ever.

And not dorky in a "ive got five crates of vinyl" cool way.

Dorky in a really bad way.



My 2 person party, combined level of 7, is fighting an Intellect Devourer. The CR on that sucker is AT LEAST 9. According to the charts, my characters should have gotten 1800xp each for killing it (and that's assuming we're playing under "henchmen get xp" rules). How much did I get? 200.

Pomp

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that the fact that a computer RPG is, almost necessarily, going to focus more heavily on combat than a live RPG is going to make it necessary to alter the level advancement rules, else your characters would be levelin gup much faster than they would in a "real" RPG.

LaFlavor

pomp is correct. in normal pnp d&d a single battle can take up a whole night. whereas, if you have a computer taking care of all of the rules and everything, a battle takes a minute or two. therefore, if the game gave normal xp for fighting, you'd have a level 20 character within a couple of hours. it'd make for an extremely boring experience.

Dark Jedi

And, the kicker:

Singleplay Neverwinter is OK. However, it's strength lies in creating your own modules and running your friends through them. It is the ultimate visual DM tool.

Don't like the way it plays? Make your own campaign, or download one of the 42 bajillion ones that are already out there. Many make the exp just like they expect it to be.

As for the traps: If you trapped a corridor with a pressure plate, couldn't you dance all around the general area and not trip it (Barring pure clumsiness). Badguys can dance on their traps because they are their traps. A good rogue would try to draw enemies to the traps they had set, and I'm sure complain heavily to the DM if he says the rogue set of his own trap just by being near it.

butswana

If you want more story try Planescape.

Kevin Dorner

What butswana said. PlaneScape is the high-water mark in single-player RPG interaction and plot even four years after its release.

You're always going to find that the computer "cheats" by overpowering enemies and their abilities to make up for their AI being a small fraction of the effectiveness of your intelligence, and that only a few of variables in a real PnP game can be effectively implemented in the game world.

For example I can't recall an AD&D CRPG that ever had rust monsters in it. This would be a totally authentic way of keeping players from getting too powerful by a guaranteed keeping of their uberweapons and armour throughout the game. Why not? Because a hundred thousand munchkids would flood the developers with "I LOST MY +12 HOLY FLAMIN' FROST-BRAND GRONK-SLAYIN' VORPAL HAMMER O' WOUNDIN' AN' RETURNIN' AN' SHOOTIN'-LIGHTNIN'-OUT-YER-BUM! I WAN IT BACK NOW! U SUCK!" and that would be the end of it. So they "nerf" by more subtle means (that actually require research/knowledge to uncover) and get less negative feedback that way.

The problem is that players insist on advancing, and fighting is the easiest thing to implement in any game. So enemies have to keep up because otherwise the game will become too easy. But not all players are expert tacticians, so in order to fight the higher-level enemies, higher-level weapons/armour/spells need to be supplied (which is also part of the advancing.) Eventually this feedback effect dominates the game and squashes any remaining R in the RPG (role-playing, dialog, character interaction and non-combative development, background, free-ranging exploration) so that only combat is left, and the game becomes tedious.

Psycho Economist

I can't speak for the way XP accumulates in NWN, but as for fudging dice rolls, there should be an adjustable difficulty slider to control it: cheating in your favor at the low end and, playing it straight in the middle and cheating in the computer's favor at the high end. I know the NWN DM's client has this slider for sure and the Baldur's Gate games do too.

Wyz_sub10

Calzaer,

I know NWN uses 3rd Edition rules. Are you applying the rules from 2E?

BTW, I loved NWN. The experience *did* seem wonky at times, but I always felt that my character progressed in synch with the demands of the story, so I can only conclude that the XP was rationed out suitably.

NWN really shines in the flexibility for characters and created modules. But even the Bioware campaign was a tonne of fun.

My only problem was with the number. It should be a party affair - that's the whole point of D&D.

I would have liked 2 henchmen that you could fully control (items, level ups). I use a mod that gives you greater control over the heanchman's inventory, but I would have liked a design that allowed you to level them up. (You cannot right now because henchmen in NWN are set for their levels. In other words, when your henchman goes to level 2, he is really a "new" henchman, precreated to take over for the old one).

Duck!

I've never been into RPGs (real or virtual) but I found NWN as boring as hell. I bought it on the recommendation of a guy in my local game store who said I'd love it based on the fact that I'd bought and enjoyed Morrowind.

But I find it impossible to get into. I've started three different games and never lasted more than a couple of hours without getting bored and frustrated.

I think that maybe it's because I've already gotten so heavy into Morrowind and I find it difficult to get my teeth into game that's very different.

Is it necessary to know anything about AD&D to play the likes of Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate?


Duck!