Dr Rick

The most serious problem this post poses is what to condemn first: the racism, the sexism, or the baseless assertion about abortion's effects.

yguy

The last could be debated, I suppose, but that many black men are misogynists and many black women are promiscuous is neither racist nor sexist, but a recognition of the obvious. Gangstarap glorifies this behavior, for crying out loud.

brighid

Here is a study on the decline in teenage pregnancy:

http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/or_teen_preg_decline.html

Only if your interaction with black men and women is via MTV or the Source Awards.

Your statements are not obvious to the millions of black men and women who are neither misogynistic nor promiscuous. It is offensive to suggest that the color of one's skin determines behavior, or equates to specific behaviors. There are plenty of people, regardless of skin color, who are misogynists and/or promiscuous (including plenty of white men and women.)

Gangstarap does glorify certain behaviors (but not all of it does), however to formulate ideas about millions of people by the views expressed by a FEW in pop culture is wrong-headed.

After spending my weekend as the sole white woman in a large, diverse group of non-white people (mainly black women and children) I cannot even begin to tell you how wrong you are.

I would suggest expanding your base of interaction with non-white people, and just as white people aren't adequately represented by red-neck hicks or KKK members the whole of Black, American culture cannot be fit into the narrow box of gangstarap.

Brighid

yguy

Kindly produce the quote where I suggested such a thing. I am perfectly aware that not all black people are that way, but in no other race has such behavior reached such epidemic proportions. I suspect this is because they've been targeted by liberal racists who are using them to economically intimidate productive citizens.

I haven't done that, of course. However, the existence of such cultural icons as Tupac Shakur et al is prima facie evidence of a market for their product - and producers of this swill aren't targeting preppies or valley girls, am I right?

You have shown a distinct proclivity for misinterpreting what I say. I do try to be careful about how I phrase things, but of course that isn't much help if you don't read carefully.

dk

The claimed was... Poor benefit from legal abortion. The poor are disproportionately black. The inference was there, and its not clear that black people have benefited from abortion, while it is clear there's 35% fewer black people because of legal abortion. If we are to find an alternative to abortion, then the first step is to seperate the myth from the reality. Is abortion a covert attempt to cull poor black people, poor people or help them?

brighid

Kindly reproduced

What this says to me is that you equate the blackness of one's skin to be the "obvious" reason that many (not some, but many) black men are misogynist and many (not some) are promiscuous because "gangstarap glorifies this behavior, for crying out loud. (emphasis added), hence I concluded those statements to be BOTH racist and sexist and NOT at all the "obvious" reason why people who fit those criteria are what you claim.

You will find comparable number of people of varying ethnic background, who for any number of environmental reasons have been taught these bad attitudes and behaviors, none of which is caused by the color of ones skin.

I simply pointed out that (and I will further clarify) the MANY people you surreptitiously placed in the categories of misogynist and promiscuous based on the color of their skin, as evidenced by the music produced by the FEW is a narrow minded conclusion and only represents a portion of urban culture, part of which is represented by black Americans.

Furthermore, I read your statements "carefully" and to suggest that I did otherwise because I did not come to the conclusion you desired to represent (but did not make clear) is an inaccurate conclusion.

I would say this simply speaks to your ignorance of who purchases "gangsta rap." My husband and I have an extensive collection of "gangsta rap", including Tupac, DMX, Ice Cube, Lil' Kim, Rough Riders, etc. We are neither black, my husband is certainly not misogynist, nor am I promiscuous. We are middle class, professional, educated people who simply enjoy that music for different reasons. I know many people with similar backgrounds that enjoy that music as well. We so happen to partake of a wide berth of musical enjoyment from classical (my husband minored in music history), to blues, jazz, hip-hop, new age all the way to gangsta rap (with a noted exception to most country music.) The demographics on those who purchases gangsta rap is varied and not exclusive to urban youth of non-white skin. Is gangsta rap marketed toward children in gated communities and "valley girls?" I don't think that is there target market, but correlation does not equal causation.

Gangstarap and rap music in general has socio-political roots, although some artists like Lil'Kim and 50 Cent are simply exploiting a cross-cultural (because white kids listen to it too) pop music wave of success, that do not reflect those roots.

However, I would ask the question - so what? Does the existence of such products and the market for it equate to the "many" conclusion you have made, or that black men and women who listen to gangstarap are misogynist or promiscuous? I would conclude that the answer is no!

A distinct proclivity? That is a pretty serious accusation. I would suggest that you prove that up. I did not misrepresent what you said. I simply quoted what you said, responded to those statements, and pointed out what I felt were errors in your reasoning. You attempted to clarify, but in your clarification I still I have yet to be presented with a reason to change the conclusions I drew from your statements.

Brighid

yguy

Then you are either deficient in your ability to comprehend the written word or deliberately misunderstanding. Your premise is utterly false, an inference improperly drawn from what I said. If this behavior were endemic to the black race, it would have been a problem long before the 60's.

I'm afraid it isn't, ma'am.

That, of course, was the point.

Obviously, which is why I never claimed that gangstarap caused this behavior.

The fact that such "music" is even held in high esteem is a sign of something rotten in the black community, just as the tolerance for advocacy of pedophilia is a sign of something rotten in Amsterdam.

Your post IS the proof.

You said that I "equate the blackness of one's skin to be the 'obvious' reason that many (not some, but many) black men are misogynist and many (not some) are promiscuous..." That's a blatant distortion at best.

Now brighid, you perhaps have figured out by now that no one on this board is more genially willing to make enemies than I am...and if you keep misrepresenting me, you're gonna be another one. If you're OK with that, then believe me, so am I.

brighid

I would say that I am neither deficient in my ability to comprehend the written word, or deliberately misunderstanding anything you have written. Perhaps it is simply your abrasive style and trite commentary that is at the root of the problem, as it seems (by your own admission) that your willingness to make enemies interferes with your ability to present commentary, or conclusion that are reasonable and non-prejudicial (as it appears others seem to have the same problem "understanding" you.)

However, as this line of thought has really nothing to do with practical solutions for abortion and continues to stray far from the intended topic I will refrain from making further comment to statements that are off track.

If you would like to open a seperate thread discussing your racial ideas please feel free to do so and I will be happy to engage you there, but for the purposes of this thread comments should be restricted to the OP.

In that spirit, what practical pro-life solutions do you have to offer?

Brighid

yguy

Forgive me for dredging up a moldy oldy from the 70's, but the feminists had a point when they complained they were treated as sex objects. Problem is, many women get a sense of power over men from being treated that way. Nevertheless, if men were to refuse to play that game, the problem would be eliminated almost overnight.

brighid

I really have no idea where you are trying to go with those statements, nor how those statements are applicable to "practicle" solutions from the pro-life segment of the population with regard to abortion. I also don't see the statements your previously made about blacks, et al as being in any way related to the feminism of the 70's.

Brighid