Freethought & Rationalism Archive

trillian · 07-15-2003, 03:12 PM

My sister's husband had a vasectomy after having 3 kids with 1 wife and 1 live-in. He thought he was through.

Then he got with my sister who has 2 kids with a previous husband but wanted another with the new husband. (She had had an abortion with the previous husband before she left and adamantly wanted her tubes tied but the doctor refused her also.)

So he had the vasectomy reversed but tested at only 10% sperm motility (sp?). They tries IVF once and it didn't work. Then 2 months later she got pregnant anyway and is due for a little boy this week.

The point of all of this is that if you two are in a true partnership, the scope of the operation and the reversibility of it later should clearly point to your husband having the "band-aid" vasectomy vs. the invasive and much riskier surgical tubaligation for you. Even if you never ever change your minds, it's still the best medical choice for a monogamous couple. I would seriously question why he refuses this obvious best choice for you both.

All that being said, if you've weighed the risks and still think you should have the surgery, a doctor should be no judge of your decision.

trillian

edit to add: If your biggest pain in this issue is that others are pressuring you to change your mind, then I can see how the irreversible choice can look mighty attractive to shut them up for good. If it's simple birth control, then the other options suffice.

Immaculate Deception · 07-15-2003, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ImGod

I never ask questions about the subject, because after 2 kids of my own I can see why someone would not want children. Lucky for my kids, I only think that way 40 percent of the time.

My mom was the same way, except maybe 60%.

You wouldn't guess it now, with the way she carries on. I'm sure that the childless women really appreciate that you don't ask questions. I don't mind the first pleasant inquiry, "Do you have any children?" It's the questions afterwards that get to me!

RevDahlia:

Quote:

I have heard that testimony from a psychiatrist will grease the wheels somewhat for childless women seeking tubals. Perhaps you could find a sympathetic shrink.

That is a definite possibility. I did go to a therapist this past year who probably would write something up for me. Great idea.

Jewel · 07-15-2003, 03:55 PM

Immaculate Deception,

I can certainly sympathise with your situation. I met my MIL at my wedding and she wasted no time -- she started asking me at the reception when she could expect grandchildren! I told her I was not having children, but evidentally she didn't believe me since she nagged my husband about it every time he talked to her for several years. I think she has finally gotten it through her head that we're not having kids -- but I have no doubt that she still prays for grandchildren.

My mom got used to the idea of my not having kids a long time ago -- I don't remember ever wanting kids. She asks every now and again but she doesn't raise a fuss -- maybe it's because she knows I would raise my children in a godless home. Fine with me. She has plenty of grandkids anyway from my other siblings.

Honestly, though, we get the most crap from people our own age (I'm 33 & dh is 35) who have kids and don't remember what sleeping through the night is like. One of the most idiotic things someone said to my husband a while back was-- "how do you know you don't want kids if you don't have any?" I was speechless. I mean by then it would be a little late, wouldn't it?

I've also heard a plenty -- "You'll change your mind" and "you'll regret it if you don't have kids" and "it's different when they're your own", blah, blah, blah.

Some of it, I think, is jealousy of our disposable time and income -- I mean, how dare we spend money on ourselves and take vacations -- and sleep! And then there is the freedom to have sex. I've rarely encountered a person in real life who had or wanted kids who didn't nearly short circuit at the thought of someone being childless -- by choice. Maybe a lot of it is religion, I don't know. But I don't get it.

My husband is seriously considering getting a vasectomy. There is the option of a "no-scalpel vasectomy" for those who can't stand the thought of a knife near their favorite body part -- read all about it at vasectomy.com . Maybe you could encourage your husband to talk to his doctor to see which procedure would be best for him.

-Jewel

AspenMama · 07-15-2003, 08:08 PM

This isn't a Secular Lifestyle issue. So off to the Coffeehouse.

AspenMama, SL Moderator

echidna · 07-15-2003, 08:17 PM

Immaculate Deception, you may find this satisfying :

Spoiled, doughy brat makes local parent feel spiritually whole.

CosmicGame · 07-15-2003, 10:09 PM

I have always wondered, in discussions of and by people who choose to remain childless, why the people who seem like they'd make the BEST parents don't want to! We could use more skeptics and critical thinkers in this crazy, mixed-up world of ours, dangit!

I saw that Onion article awhile back, and it totally made me feel guilty for wanting 2 kids, 2 cats, a husband, a VW minibus and a white picket fence. *sigh* I'm dong my best to raise my almost-7-year-old to realize that world doesn't revolve around his narrow behind....I so loathe being tarred with the same brush as so many of the "soccer mommies" who've spawned many of my son's peers.

Okay, so I like having a child, and would like to have just ONE more..... I'll shut up now before I'm guilty of thread-hijacking. I will agree though, that your husband should certainly consider the vasectomy route. Why should a woman bear the entire responsibility of birth control? And IPU forbid, what if you DO change your mind 10 years down the road? Stranger things have happened. A snip job is less dangerous to him than tubal ligation to you,a nd far more reversible.

Jennifer

Viti · 07-15-2003, 10:28 PM

According to an article posted in Elsewhere there are doctors who amputate healthy limbs to satisfy their patients wacky mental disorder....not wanting children is certainly less bizarre than feeling you should have been born armless.

Quote:

Nothing gives you the warm fuzzy spirit of christmas like having to tell everyone gathered you may be infertile so shutup already

No shit...we are infertile and just had our 12th anniversary. For some reason people have no qualms about asking nosy personal questions about your parental status...it actually has started feeling good to look stricken and say "I am barren" all dramatic so they get very uncomfortable and start stammering.

Viti · 07-15-2003, 10:30 PM

double post

echidna · 07-15-2003, 11:12 PM

(edit - yet another dumb post by me)

RevDahlia · 07-16-2003, 12:37 AM

As for the "regret factor" w/r/t tubal ligations -- why not adopt later on if you find you want kids? There are thousands of children out there who need homes. Given the overburdened foster-care system, it seems selfish to demand a child who bears your exact genes-- more selfish, IMO, than voluntarily remaining childless.

07-15-2003, 10:09 PM	#16
CosmicGame Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Pacific Northwest (Oregon) Posts: 128	Honest question -- don't shoot! I have always wondered, in discussions of and by people who choose to remain childless, why the people who seem like they'd make the BEST parents don't want to! We could use more skeptics and critical thinkers in this crazy, mixed-up world of ours, dangit! I saw that Onion article awhile back, and it totally made me feel guilty for wanting 2 kids, 2 cats, a husband, a VW minibus and a white picket fence. sigh I'm dong my best to raise my almost-7-year-old to realize that world doesn't revolve around his narrow behind....I so loathe being tarred with the same brush as so many of the "soccer mommies" who've spawned many of my son's peers. Okay, so I like having a child, and would like to have just ONE more..... I'll shut up now before I'm guilty of thread-hijacking. I will agree though, that your husband should certainly consider the vasectomy route. Why should a woman bear the entire responsibility of birth control? And IPU forbid, what if you DO change your mind 10 years down the road? Stranger things have happened. A snip job is less dangerous to him than tubal ligation to you,a nd far more reversible. Jennifer

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07-15-2003, 03:12 PM	#11
trillian Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: OC Posts: 1,620	My sister's husband had a vasectomy after having 3 kids with 1 wife and 1 live-in. He thought he was through. Then he got with my sister who has 2 kids with a previous husband but wanted another with the new husband. (She had had an abortion with the previous husband before she left and adamantly wanted her tubes tied but the doctor refused her also.) So he had the vasectomy reversed but tested at only 10% sperm motility (sp?). They tries IVF once and it didn't work. Then 2 months later she got pregnant anyway and is due for a little boy this week. The point of all of this is that if you two are in a true partnership, the scope of the operation and the reversibility of it later should clearly point to your husband having the "band-aid" vasectomy vs. the invasive and much riskier surgical tubaligation for you. Even if you never ever change your minds, it's still the best medical choice for a monogamous couple. I would seriously question why he refuses this obvious best choice for you both. All that being said, if you've weighed the risks and still think you should have the surgery, a doctor should be no judge of your decision. trillian edit to add: If your biggest pain in this issue is that others are pressuring you to change your mind, then I can see how the irreversible choice can look mighty attractive to shut them up for good. If it's simple birth control, then the other options suffice.

07-15-2003, 03:55 PM	#13
Jewel Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Northern Virginia, USA Posts: 1,112	Immaculate Deception, I can certainly sympathise with your situation. I met my MIL at my wedding and she wasted no time -- she started asking me at the reception when she could expect grandchildren! I told her I was not having children, but evidentally she didn't believe me since she nagged my husband about it every time he talked to her for several years. I think she has finally gotten it through her head that we're not having kids -- but I have no doubt that she still prays for grandchildren. My mom got used to the idea of my not having kids a long time ago -- I don't remember ever wanting kids. She asks every now and again but she doesn't raise a fuss -- maybe it's because she knows I would raise my children in a godless home. Fine with me. She has plenty of grandkids anyway from my other siblings. Honestly, though, we get the most crap from people our own age (I'm 33 & dh is 35) who have kids and don't remember what sleeping through the night is like. One of the most idiotic things someone said to my husband a while back was-- "how do you know you don't want kids if you don't have any?" I was speechless. I mean by then it would be a little late, wouldn't it? I've also heard a plenty -- "You'll change your mind" and "you'll regret it if you don't have kids" and "it's different when they're your own", blah, blah, blah. Some of it, I think, is jealousy of our disposable time and income -- I mean, how dare we spend money on ourselves and take vacations -- and sleep! And then there is the freedom to have sex. I've rarely encountered a person in real life who had or wanted kids who didn't nearly short circuit at the thought of someone being childless -- by choice. Maybe a lot of it is religion, I don't know. But I don't get it. My husband is seriously considering getting a vasectomy. There is the option of a "no-scalpel vasectomy" for those who can't stand the thought of a knife near their favorite body part -- read all about it at vasectomy.com . Maybe you could encourage your husband to talk to his doctor to see which procedure would be best for him. -Jewel

07-15-2003, 08:08 PM	#14
AspenMama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,311	This isn't a Secular Lifestyle issue. So off to the Coffeehouse. AspenMama, SL Moderator

07-15-2003, 08:17 PM	#15
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Immaculate Deception, you may find this satisfying : Spoiled, doughy brat makes local parent feel spiritually whole.

07-15-2003, 10:30 PM	#18
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	double post

07-15-2003, 11:12 PM	#19
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	(edit - yet another dumb post by me)

07-16-2003, 12:37 AM	#20
RevDahlia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 4,930	As for the "regret factor" w/r/t tubal ligations -- why not adopt later on if you find you want kids? There are thousands of children out there who need homes. Given the overburdened foster-care system, it seems selfish to demand a child who bears your exact genes-- more selfish, IMO, than voluntarily remaining childless.

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