Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Starboy · 12-17-2002, 08:58 PM

Principia, do you believe that JC died and was resurrected?

Starboy

Principia · 12-17-2002, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
Principia, do you believe that JC died and was resurrected?

Starboy

In other words, "Are you or have you ever been a member of the Christian religion?"

Starboy · 12-17-2002, 09:10 PM

That is an answer to a previous question, if you don't care to answer my last question just say so, but it does appear to me that you are playing games with yourself.

Starboy

Principia · 12-17-2002, 09:16 PM

Starboy, I think my comments stand to carry more weight if it didn't depend on whether or not I was a Christian. If you want to talk about Christ's resurrection then E/C might be the wrong forum. If you want to know my religious or non-religious affiliations, PM me and I will tell you in confidence.

[ December 17, 2002: Message edited by: Principia ]

Starboy · 12-17-2002, 09:40 PM

I don't understand the need for such secrecy. What is the big deal?

Anyway to make short work of the argument, since I will retire after this post, if you did accept the resurrection as an explanation for the events as listed in the bible. And as a result did not accept a more prosaic but natural explanation that fit the salient facts and explained how Jesus did not die on the cross and so did not require resurrecting, then this would be a classic case of accepting a supernatural over a natural explanation. Just so happens that it is a foundational precept of just about all of Christianity. Thus the promotion of a supernatural over a natural explanation taking place every day of the week and twice on Sunday by supernatural religion is demonstrated. The natural explanation is so obvious that it would stretch credulity beyond the breaking point if the church new nothing of it, thus the claim of deceit. And since it is such a core tenant, correction of the deceit would require nothing less than the dismantling of the church.

Starboy

Kevin · 12-19-2002, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy:
I don't understand the need for such secrecy. What is the big deal?

Presumably because Principia, as I have done, has watched you consistently try to paint him or her into a corner, and thinks his or her arguments do not rest on whether or not Principia is a Christian.

RufusAtticus · 12-19-2002, 08:34 AM

Starboy,

Do you understand the distinction between superstition and faith?

pz · 12-19-2002, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus:
Starboy,

Do you understand the distinction between superstition and faith?

If he doesn't, he's not alone. I don't, either.

Selsaral · 12-19-2002, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus:
Starboy,

Do you understand the distinction between superstition and faith?

I don't mean to answer for him, but my understanding is that superstition is that ridiculous voodoo the so-and-sos practice, while faith is the ridiculous voodoo you have been indoctrinated with and see as natural and correct.

(Please forgive my cynicism if you find it offensive, it was meant more as humorous).

JusticeMachine · 12-19-2002, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GreggLD1:


Paul Kurtz addressed this issue in Free Inquiry magazine a few months ago. The common explanation, that America was "settled by religious fanatics," isn't really accurate. Yeah, quite a few minority religious groups came over to escape persecution by the majority religious establishment, but most people came over just to escape persecution, period. They were fed up with Church AND State.

For quite a while Americans were actually LESS religious and more skeptical, down-to-earth, common-sense folks than Europeans. In the late 19th century, much of mainstream Christianity in America seemed to be on a progressive path, seeking to move away from dogmatism and adapt to scientific discoveries. Then the fundamentalist movement arose in reaction to this, and things were set back for a few decades.

Meanwhile, Europe suffered through the Great War, which destroyed an entire generation and led to widespread disillusionment and the rejection, or at least the severe weakening, of traditional institutions. Then came the Depression, followed by WW2, which devastated Europe all over again and pretty much "locked in" disillusionment with Protestant and Catholic Christianity, both of which had failed to take a strong stand against the Nazis, and with the whole notion of divine mercy, protection, providence, etc.

On the other hand, the United States went through WWs 1 and 2 relatively unscathed and came out of both conflicts even stronger and richer than before. This led to a sense of being blessed, special, "chosen." And of course, there was the face-off with the "Godless" commies, which led directly to the addition of "In God We Trust" to the money and "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance."

Science made a comeback in the late 50's after the Russians launched Sputnik, but once we beat the Russians to the Moon, people got bored with that. Finally, the counterculture excesses of the 60's and 70's naturally spawned a conservative counter-counterculture, and by the late 70's/early 80's the popularity of fundamentalism--and creationism--was on the rise again.

So, basically, we Americans haven't abandoned religious fantasies because we haven't really been given any reason to. Our lives have generally been pretty good no matter what we believe or do, so many of us just indulge themselves in mental silliness. When what we believe starts having a direct effect on our living standards or our very survival--or if our beliefs fail to get us through a grave national crisis--that might change.

Gregg

It sounds rational, but what about the countries that believe and who believers have good reason to loose faith, because they do have a hard life, but don't. Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist.......

12-17-2002, 09:16 PM	#134
Principia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: anywhere Posts: 1,976	Starboy, I think my comments stand to carry more weight if it didn't depend on whether or not I was a Christian. If you want to talk about Christ's resurrection then E/C might be the wrong forum. If you want to know my religious or non-religious affiliations, PM me and I will tell you in confidence. [ December 17, 2002: Message edited by: Principia ]</p>

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12-17-2002, 08:58 PM	#131
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Principia, do you believe that JC died and was resurrected? Starboy

12-17-2002, 09:10 PM	#133
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	That is an answer to a previous question, if you don't care to answer my last question just say so, but it does appear to me that you are playing games with yourself. Starboy

12-17-2002, 09:40 PM	#135
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	I don't understand the need for such secrecy. What is the big deal? Anyway to make short work of the argument, since I will retire after this post, if you did accept the resurrection as an explanation for the events as listed in the bible. And as a result did not accept a more prosaic but natural explanation that fit the salient facts and explained how Jesus did not die on the cross and so did not require resurrecting, then this would be a classic case of accepting a supernatural over a natural explanation. Just so happens that it is a foundational precept of just about all of Christianity. Thus the promotion of a supernatural over a natural explanation taking place every day of the week and twice on Sunday by supernatural religion is demonstrated. The natural explanation is so obvious that it would stretch credulity beyond the breaking point if the church new nothing of it, thus the claim of deceit. And since it is such a core tenant, correction of the deceit would require nothing less than the dismantling of the church. Starboy

12-19-2002, 08:34 AM	#137
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	Starboy, Do you understand the distinction between superstition and faith?

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