SecularFuture

Hehehe - Good point! Me to. That is why I have such a fear of death right now. I was 'all ready' for an enternal life with Jesus.

Theism - The Greatest Mind Fu## of All Time!

KitKit

quote:
When a father gets a phone call that his son was hit by a car after a soccer practice and is gone, what comfort does atheism offer?

but is it really the religion that gives them comfort to begin with? since i never had religion, but have always have plenty of moral support & comfort from friends & family, i just don't see how religion has anything to do with it.

i mean, if my child dies (or anyone else close to me) i don't want someone telling me it was all apart of some big plan. that wouldn't comfort me in the least. that would just make me angry. my grieving process does not include lies & deception and that is just fine by me.

AJ113

Yep, me too. I started a thread in SL&S. There were some good answers that may help you

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=53277

emotional

I had thought there might be a reasoned, reasonable way of believing in life after death. I thought NDEs would be evidence of life after death, and Victor Zammit's Case for the Afterlife would be proof, and Ronald Pearson's theory would be final verification - all together, a reasoned way of believing in life after death, based on hard evidence. But I brought these issues, including these two links, here on the boards, and what I got was a cold shower: NDEs are just defence mechanisms of the dying brain, Victor Zammit's stuff is a collection of pseudoscience, and Pearson's theory is crackpot. So that was enough to set doubts in me, and make me think that the rationalist, reasonable case for life after death was not so strong after all.

Now, would I give up my belief in life after death? Never. As I said before, the day I disbelieve in life after death is the day I commit myself to a lunatic asylum. My fear of death is so great that there can just be no argument here whatsoever. So if the reasonable, evidential case for life after death has been broken, what's left? There is no choice but faith. Faith: to believe in life after death regardless of the evidence. Since reason, which tells me there is no life after death (and therefore life is pointless), causes me such grief and despair, I might as well chuck it in favour of comforting, consoling faith. Faith is better than reason. Reason is cold, hard and harsh. Faith is warm and consoling.

On the miraculous event that, somehow, scientists as a body declare the afterlife as proven (by accepting Pearson's theory, for example), I'll no longer need faith, and I'll be a reason-guided person once again. But this is highly unlikely. Pearson's going to stay a crackpot just like the Velikovskians, and CSICOP will merrily chug out refutations of NDEs and the afterlife for evermore. So this leaves me no alternative but to shut out the eye of reason and embrace God and the afterlife as blind faith. Because I really have no choice. It was nice being an unbeliever for a fair length of time, but my fear of final death has really got the better of me. Sorry

The Lone Ranger

Hang on, there. Even if there's no life after death, that in no way implies that life is pointless.

I'm of the opinion that if you want your life to have meaning, then you must do something to give it meaning.

Cheers,

Michael

emotional

It does. If oblivion is the end result of all things, then life is pointless. You may enjoy it while it lasts, but in the end you won't know anything, and all your life - all the universe - will be as if nothing had ever happened. It's like building a palace and then going over it all with dynamite. Pointless.

"It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to spout such nonsense." - me.

SecularFuture

Thank you.

Walross

Hi emotional, I think I understand - at least somewhat - where you're coming from. It's difficult even for theists, let alone atheists, to accept mortality. But is it really pointless? In the absence of any "record" feature (which theists seem to equate with "god"), the things we do and say in life may be lost forever...but does it matter that much to you? What about NOW?

I offer the following quote from the novel The Last Temptation (for I find great wisdom in parts of it):

I bolded the part I felt most significant. Are not the moments enough for you, emotional? If moments are not enough, what good is an infinity of moments? Personally, I find great beauty in the fact that we all end. Yes, it is painful - I lost my Mother just 3 years ago - but there is a cycle to things, and I find that somehow... comforting.

I have one more quote from a very wise man who died an untimely death not very long ago. I don't suspect it will sway you, emotional, but I do hope you will see how those of us who lack a deity can find comfort:

That was written by Carl Sagan.

I don't know when I will die, emotional - or when anyone I love may die - but I do know that the best I can do for them, and for myself, is to live as free from illusions as I can. You may not agree, but you wouldn't be the first. I hope you find what you're looking for. Regards,

Ross

emotional

Now is worth nothing if it's all going to end in oblivion. I've thought so since the age of eight (when I first learned about the fact of death), and nothing since has changed my mind.



If you build a palace, you make it to last, you don't blow it up with dynamite after 70 years or so. Death makes the whole of life a thing of craziness.



Are you off your rocker?!



Sagan was a scientist, and he said that?! Surely he knew the world is full of pain, misery, suffering, struggle and unpleasantness? How can anyone say such good things about the world when it is so full of EVIL, EVIL, EVIL? Hadn't he ever studied an ichneumonid wasp? Hadn't he ever been to a hospital? This world is an accursed place!

I don't like my life now and I'm looking forward to a better life after I die. And even if I did like my life now, final death would make all the pleasure for naught. Either way, the afterlife is a necessity.



Life after death isn't an illusion, it's real. I have no evidence to back it up, but I believe it's real.

HelenM

I just hope you don't get discouraged when people here respond that you're wrong, or try to persuade you that you're wrong. It seems inevitable that some will, since most people here don't believe in life after death and this is a discussion board, not a 'support' board per se.

Helen