Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amen-Moses · 09-09-2002, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The AntiChris:
More seriously, I do wonder about the notion that consensual sexual activity at a young age inevitably leads to psychological damage.

This is why I chose that particular example, I have spoken to people of both sexes from societies in which this custom exists and there is no consent expected from the boy but there is consent from society as a whole. They look upon our system (speaking for the English culture here) of allowing children to randomly explore their sexuality without any practical education as immoral! Strangely enough these societies do not extend the same education to their female children, instead it is the husbands role to educate his wife, this is in all probability due to the fact that until recently only women had the ability to control their fertility by for example careful choice of the timing of the sexual act and/or the use of certain herbal methods of abortion or as spermicides.

Amen-Moses

Amen-Moses · 09-09-2002, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Intensity:
Abe, so the question is, why dont we want it to be done to our children?

Probably the same reason we want to have attractive spouses but not to have other humans oggling them!

Amen-Moses

Ted Hoffman · 09-09-2002, 05:12 AM

Intensity asked: Abe, so the question is, why dont we want it to be done to our children?

Amen Moses answered: Probably the same reason we want to have attractive spouses but not to have other humans oggling them!

Intensity So, its a territorial thing? Jealousy?
But what about other people's children, why do we care so much that they do not get exploited by adults? Are you saying its because we want to be the only ones capable of exploiting them?

I think its more to do with our own view of sex vis-a-vis children and adults. We regard sex as something "adult". Something dark, a necessary evil which should only be confronted by adults. We dont regard it as a purely physical act, but as something that impacts on our morality and personal integrity/ image.
So one's daughter has sex with an adult, one sees her as sullied, someone who has partaken an evil act, damaged goods, even a whore. In the absence of that one sees her as pure, innocent and pretty. Decent.

In a way, people regard sex in the same fashion they regard drugs. We fear our children may end up liking sex.

[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Intensity ]

Amen-Moses · 09-09-2002, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Intensity:
But what about other people's children, why do we care so much that they do not get exploited by adults?

Empathy? We tend to assume that others feel the same way we do, which in an isolated society is probably right more often than wrong, so we extend our own fears, jealousies or whatever you want to call them onto others.

Personally I would find it uncomfortable thinking that someone would get pleasure from looking at a photo of one of my children but I would be hard pressed to explain what is inherently wrong with that!

I once had a really interesting discussion with a man who whilst looking through a soft porn magazine and masturbating came across (not literally) a photograph of his own daughter! He said it was almost as if she had walked in on him and he was terribly embarrassed, then he was terribly angry at the thought that other men were doing the same thing! I pointed out that all the pictures he had looked at previously (and not found disturbing) were also pictures of someones daughter. (Not that he was much reassured by that.

)

Maybe if we all walked around buck naked the entire time (at least in places that are warm enough to do so) we might have less hang-ups about these issues? Bonobos certainly don't seem to have any problems in this regard.

Amen-Moses

Ted Hoffman · 09-09-2002, 05:59 AM

Primitive instincts!

09-09-2002, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amen-Moses:


So we live in tyranny? Strange view.

What is the alternative? Should we just elect a single person to make those decisions like Germany did in the 30's?

Amen-Moses

I think that was called a dictatorship.

The alternative would be to have an upper house in government that had knowledge of human error.

09-09-2002, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amen-Moses:


This is why I chose that particular example, I have spoken to people of both sexes from societies in which this custom exists and there is no consent expected from the boy but there is consent from society as a whole. They look upon our system (speaking for the English culture here) of allowing children to randomly explore their sexuality without any practical education as immoral! Strangely enough these societies do not extend the same education to their female children, instead it is the husbands role to educate his wife, this is in all probability due to the fact that until recently only women had the ability to control their fertility by for example careful choice of the timing of the sexual act and/or the use of certain herbal methods of abortion or as spermicides.

Amen-Moses

Was that in Samoa by any chance?

Amen-Moses · 09-09-2002, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
I think that was called a dictatorship.

He was at least voted for by the people, in fact he got more votes, well over 90%, than just about any other leader ever!

Amen-Moses

Amen-Moses · 09-09-2002, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
Was that in Samoa by any chance?

Nope, and why the smiley?

Amen-Moses

MadMordigan · 09-09-2002, 08:56 AM

No, not OK IMO. It sanctions and offers acceptance to a way of thinking which is (I hope we agree) is dangerously unhealthy. The use of children for adult sexual titillation is dangerously wrong & something which must be given zero tolerance.

Lets be clear, and call a spade a spade. The position advocated here is one of criminalizing thought. It is precisely in opposition to the idea of 'thought crimes' that many of us are uncomfortable with the sanctions against images of underaged sexuality.

09-09-2002, 05:12 AM	#103
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	Intensity asked: Abe, so the question is, why dont we want it to be done to our children? Amen Moses answered: Probably the same reason we want to have attractive spouses but not to have other humans oggling them! Intensity So, its a territorial thing? Jealousy? But what about other people's children, why do we care so much that they do not get exploited by adults? Are you saying its because we want to be the only ones capable of exploiting them? I think its more to do with our own view of sex vis-a-vis children and adults. We regard sex as something "adult". Something dark, a necessary evil which should only be confronted by adults. We dont regard it as a purely physical act, but as something that impacts on our morality and personal integrity/ image. So one's daughter has sex with an adult, one sees her as sullied, someone who has partaken an evil act, damaged goods, even a whore. In the absence of that one sees her as pure, innocent and pretty. Decent. In a way, people regard sex in the same fashion they regard drugs. We fear our children may end up liking sex. [ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Intensity ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

09-09-2002, 05:59 AM	#105
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	Primitive instincts!

09-09-2002, 08:56 AM	#110
MadMordigan Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 2,704	No, not OK IMO. It sanctions and offers acceptance to a way of thinking which is (I hope we agree) is dangerously unhealthy. The use of children for adult sexual titillation is dangerously wrong & something which must be given zero tolerance. Lets be clear, and call a spade a spade. The position advocated here is one of criminalizing thought. It is precisely in opposition to the idea of 'thought crimes' that many of us are uncomfortable with the sanctions against images of underaged sexuality.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.