Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sabine Grant · 03-31-2003, 07:57 PM

Salut all... my hubby is a non believer. It certainly does not affect our mutual love and respect for each other's individuality. On the contrary... it enhances our growth. We learn to look for what we have in common and direct our interaction with others on what we can do in a productive manner and together.
Frankly I do not care if his goodness to others is based on humanism... what counts for me is that he is making a difference.

There is one reality in christianity some christians refuse to live with....that no christian can claim to be applying all biblical laws to their daily life. That pursuit contradicts christian faith itself.

AMIE and WILDERNESS : my above statement is your protection against the stoning you may encounter in your choice to love and cherish a non believer. Remember that none is rigtheous according to our faith but soly thru Christ. The law is not what gives any person any rigtheousness. Live by Grace and forgive the christians who will throw the first stones at you. Focus on being supportive and nurturing wives. Your faith is in no way demeaned by your choice.
If you intend to have children, agree to maintain the same level of mutual respect with them and for them. Teach them to not focus on differences but to look for what you both have in common. How you treat each other in their presence will speak louder than theological words.
I am happy for the both of you. Veronique.

Queen of Swords · 03-31-2003, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by spurly
In youth ministry I see it over and over again. One parent is a strong, faithful, Christian. One parent does not believe at all or is minimal in their commitment. This leads to a lot of disagreement on how they should spend their money, what they should do for entertainment, and how they should raise their children, just to name a few.

Even among people who are both True Christians or people who are both unbelievers, there can be disagreements - unless we're talking about the extreme fundamentalists where the wife submits no matter what. Perhaps the disagreements you might have seen could have been avoided by a Christian wife doing the biblical thing and submitting.

Not to mention I have seen children who are totally confused because they love both parents and don't want to displease either one of them when Dad wants them to go fishing and mom wants them to go to church.

I've also seen children who benefit from the fact that they learn about more than one religion and aren't raised with the fundamentalist view that anyone who doesn't go to mommy's church is going to burn in hell.

philechat · 03-31-2003, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spurly
I know for me it would never work. The one overriding desire in my life is to have a relationship with God. It consumes my every waking moment. I want to love him. I want to rest in his love.

When I open my mouth it is what I speak about. When I read a book it is what I read about. When I watch a movie I look for ways that the movie can be applied to my love relationship with God.

When I eat, I am thinking about God. When I am in the shower I pray for God to cleanse me. When I spend money, I want to do it in ways that God desires. When I use my time, I only want to do it in a way that honors God.

A non-believer and I would never be on the same page. That is what I call being unequally yoked. And that's what Paul was warning against.

Kevin

No no no. See the OP or read the sweet Bible yet once again...Paul do not mean the believers and unbelievers not yoked because of differential preferences, but because he thought the unbelievers to be evil, dark, unrighteous, and (plug in other gentle disparaging adjectives that he used against the unbelievers).

If your overwhelming passion and love are all for God, I suggest you not to marry at all. How could you even detach yourself for a while from God to love a woman, even if she were a believer? I am very skeptical of the attention the woman would get from you with such a powerful love-object as a competitor.

spurly · 04-01-2003, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by philechat
No no no. See the OP or read the sweet Bible yet once again...Paul do not mean the believers and unbelievers not yoked because of differential preferences, but because he thought the unbelievers to be evil, dark, unrighteous, and (plug in other gentle disparaging adjectives that he used against the unbelievers).

If your overwhelming passion and love are all for God, I suggest you not to marry at all. How could you even detach yourself for a while from God to love a woman, even if she were a believer? I am very skeptical of the attention the woman would get from you with such a powerful love-object as a competitor.

It's funny. I have been told the same thing from someone I loved and cared about. They were afraid they would always be second fiddle to God and the ministry in my life, and they didn't know if they could handle that - so they decided to look for someone else.

By the way, I am still single. And it gives me many more opportunities and much more free time with which to love and serve my Father.

Kevin

Queen of Swords · 04-01-2003, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by spurly
It's funny.

It's not so much funny as eminently reasonable. If I was in the shower with my sweetheart, I'd like him to be doing something other than praying to God to cleanse both of us.

Rhea · 04-01-2003, 06:59 AM

Quote:

A non-believer and I would never be on the same page. That is what I call being unequally yoked. And that's what Paul was warning against.

Right, I see what you mean. You spell it out so clearly. The unbeliever wants vacations and money and ballet. Yes, right. The unbeliever never does charity or community service. Verily, they are gluttons and sloths. Greed, vice, evil thoughts.

Spurly, stay single.
Cause I guaran-freaking-tee you will be unhappy yoked to a woman who puts you second behind her god.

Give me a break, spurly. Your view of the non-christian is so warped I can't believe you can stand and keep your balance. Look around. You don't see any non-believers doing charity work?

None so blind as those who will not see.

You go right on thinking we're all evil. And teach that to as many little christian children as you can, eh? Yeah, their friends are selfish gluttons based only on their non-attendence of church.

What a mean thing to say to people.
But then, it's quite biblical, isn't it?

wildernesse · 04-01-2003, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spurly
It's funny. I have been told the same thing from someone I loved and cared about. They were afraid they would always be second fiddle to God and the ministry in my life, and they didn't know if they could handle that - so they decided to look for someone else.

By the way, I am still single. And it gives me many more opportunities and much more free time with which to love and serve my Father.

Kevin

spurly,

I once heard a sermon on the Good Samaritan that took a different approach to the reasons that the priest and levite passed by on the other side from the hurt person.

Under Mosaic law, touching a dead person mad you unclean ( Numbers 19:11). And the man was beaten badly enough that he was half dead and looked it. We are not told why the priest and levite passed by without helping, but what if they were keeping themselves clean--not sullying themselves with the world in order to honor God.

What if in following the "rules" they lost the message of what God called them to be? Compassionate, kind, merciful, thoughtful, loving. Could someone worship God too much--if it means they are neglecting those in need?

Loving my husband and putting him first is part of my worship and praise of God and, as a wife, part of my ministry is to care for him. He does not come second. IMO, the only thing that should come second is myself.

You may not need to hear this, and heaven forbid I should preach at someone I hardly know on the internet. Just some food for thought.

--tibac

spurly · 04-01-2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wildernesse
spurly,

I once heard a sermon on the Good Samaritan that took a different approach to the reasons that the priest and levite passed by on the other side from the hurt person.

Under Mosaic law, touching a dead person mad you unclean ( Numbers 19:11). And the man was beaten badly enough that he was half dead and looked it. We are not told why the priest and levite passed by without helping, but what if they were keeping themselves clean--not sullying themselves with the world in order to honor God.

What if in following the "rules" they lost the message of what God called them to be? Compassionate, kind, merciful, thoughtful, loving. Could someone worship God too much--if it means they are neglecting those in need?

Loving my husband and putting him first is part of my worship and praise of God and, as a wife, part of my ministry is to care for him. He does not come second. IMO, the only thing that should come second is myself.

You may not need to hear this, and heaven forbid I should preach at someone I hardly know on the internet. Just some food for thought.
--tibac

Tibac,

I have preached that sermon myself. What you say is true - I believe that is one of th emain reasons they did not stop and help - they didn't want to be kept from their service at the temple because they were unclean. Afer all, they were only selected to serve at the temple at certain times during the year.

I agree with you. Stopping to help others along the way must be done. But the reason it must be done is because we love God. That is the driving factor behind everything in life. I love God, so I serve others. I love God, so I spread the story. I love God, so I eat healthy. I love God, so I get the rest I need. I love God, so I am honest. I love God, so I use the gifts he gave me to serve him.

That thought must be first and foremost in the mind of every believer. Every breath we breathe, every step we take, we must do for God's glory.

Can you love your spouse for the glory of God? You bet. When you love them like he loves them. By sacrificing your needs for theirs.

Thanks for the reply.

Kevin

Bree · 04-01-2003, 10:02 AM

The fact you can't seem to think about anything but your sin and your unworthiness is kind of disturbing. It is very difficult to get close to another human being if you can't stop thinking about yourself all the time... even if it's in conjunction with thinking about God.

spurly · 04-01-2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree
The fact you can't seem to think about anything but your sin and your unworthiness is kind of disturbing. It is very difficult to get close to another human being if you can't stop thinking about yourself all the time... even if it's in conjunction with thinking about God.

Bree,

I think you have misunderstood what I was saying. I don't think about myself all the time. My goal is not to think about myself at all.

My goal is to meditate on God. To think his thoughts after him. To let his desires become my desires. To allow his heart to beat through mine.

As I do that, he opens my eyes to the needs of others around me. And I see them as he sees them.

Kevin

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03-31-2003, 07:57 PM	#21
Sabine Grant Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 32,364	Salut all... my hubby is a non believer. It certainly does not affect our mutual love and respect for each other's individuality. On the contrary... it enhances our growth. We learn to look for what we have in common and direct our interaction with others on what we can do in a productive manner and together. Frankly I do not care if his goodness to others is based on humanism... what counts for me is that he is making a difference. There is one reality in christianity some christians refuse to live with....that no christian can claim to be applying all biblical laws to their daily life. That pursuit contradicts christian faith itself. AMIE and WILDERNESS : my above statement is your protection against the stoning you may encounter in your choice to love and cherish a non believer. Remember that none is rigtheous according to our faith but soly thru Christ. The law is not what gives any person any rigtheousness. Live by Grace and forgive the christians who will throw the first stones at you. Focus on being supportive and nurturing wives. Your faith is in no way demeaned by your choice. If you intend to have children, agree to maintain the same level of mutual respect with them and for them. Teach them to not focus on differences but to look for what you both have in common. How you treat each other in their presence will speak louder than theological words. I am happy for the both of you. Veronique.

03-31-2003, 09:13 PM	#22
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by spurly In youth ministry I see it over and over again. One parent is a strong, faithful, Christian. One parent does not believe at all or is minimal in their commitment. This leads to a lot of disagreement on how they should spend their money, what they should do for entertainment, and how they should raise their children, just to name a few. Even among people who are both True Christians or people who are both unbelievers, there can be disagreements - unless we're talking about the extreme fundamentalists where the wife submits no matter what. Perhaps the disagreements you might have seen could have been avoided by a Christian wife doing the biblical thing and submitting. Not to mention I have seen children who are totally confused because they love both parents and don't want to displease either one of them when Dad wants them to go fishing and mom wants them to go to church. I've also seen children who benefit from the fact that they learn about more than one religion and aren't raised with the fundamentalist view that anyone who doesn't go to mommy's church is going to burn in hell.

04-01-2003, 06:45 AM	#25
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Originally posted by spurly It's funny. It's not so much funny as eminently reasonable. If I was in the shower with my sweetheart, I'd like him to be doing something other than praying to God to cleanse both of us.

04-01-2003, 10:02 AM	#29
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	The fact you can't seem to think about anything but your sin and your unworthiness is kind of disturbing. It is very difficult to get close to another human being if you can't stop thinking about yourself all the time... even if it's in conjunction with thinking about God.

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