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Old 08-02-2005, 07:31 AM   #11
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Roo taste.
Hard to describe taste.
First of all it's a game meat and should be hung for a few days. I don't think that happens with the limited quantities of commercial roo meat for human consumption.The taste is not as good. Most roos ''culled'' in Oz are used for pet food which is bottom of the market. Silly.
So it has a game taste something like beef IMO, similar in appearance and texture. I've given roo steak to people on more than 1 occasion without telling them what it was cos most Aussies have this weird prejudice against it. They liked it.

There are several things in it's favour as a potential human food.
Firstly it has minimal impact on the marginal lands. Within 20 kms. of here the land supports virtually no sheep/cattle without heavy supplemental feeding and watering.
Yet there would be, I'm guessing, certainly 100s maybe 1000s of roos surviving happily without being fed or watered.Remember we have just had 2 years of drought.Their water intake is low cf. body bulk and their output minimal. Recovery after drought is remarkable, they are breeding machines when they choose to be.
Secondly, the flavour is distinctive and personally I like it and most people I know who eat it, love it. So a market ploy would be sucessful in my opinion.We already have crocodile and emu being sold as niche markets.
Thirdly, if necessary it can be drowned in a sauce, 1 place [the only place I know of] sells it in many forms: mince, sausage, stir fry etc..
Fourthly, it is utilising an otherwise wasted food source. No need for pasture improvement, they are relatively disease free cf sheep etc..Tough critters.
But the best thing is that roo meat is virtually cholesterol free and highly suitable for carnivorous heart patients like me. I buy roo salami that has been tested at less than 2% fat. And it's nutritious.
Sounds great doesn't it?
There are no major hinderances to the prospect of large scale commercial farming of roos - mainly just lack of imagination.
And just to go a little further along this track. In this area there are 1000s of wombats.Their drought survival skills are even more impressive than roos. They can virtually exist without surface water at all and can survive in extreme environmental degradation as in this area. Their food utilisation efficiency is awesome.I don't know what they taste like but I am assured by friends they are delicious.
You probably got more than you wanted.
PS. Roo and wombat leather is easy to work, very very soft and yet hard wearing.
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Old 08-02-2005, 07:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarpedon
What do roos taste like?
They taste very good. We can buy kangaroo meat easily here in France. I prefer ostrich meat, though.
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Old 08-02-2005, 07:39 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by premjan
Cows probably aren't too smart, but apparently they are pretty peace-loving
that's exactly what they want you to think. You must not have heard the Dana Lyons song "Cows With Guns"
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Old 08-02-2005, 08:38 AM   #14
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premjan: or recreate a thylacine
I'm for this! There have been some recent effortst o try and explore the potential for cloning of preserved thylacine specimens. Just a neat animal. But I fear the prognosis is probably poor for some time if ever.

I love all the sustainable roo/wombat eating talk! I'd be all about that. And bison in NA. The problem with bison is that they are too large and aggressive to just let wander all over strip mall-ridden America, and beef is cheaper to produce still equipment-wise [fences must be pretty substantial for bison, and they aren't as big on cooperation/predictability/docility]. I'd love to eat roo or wombat or emu or whatever. But I can't really get it anywhere around here, at least not without paying prohibitive prices.
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Old 08-02-2005, 09:24 AM   #15
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umm ok...Sorry, the derail was partly my fault, but I'd like to steer this one back on to ethics. So, lets rephrase the question to say: Is it ethical to eat culled animals. Or could a person who is a vegetarian eat a culled animal without qualms? Also, talk about cuteness and intelligence as influencing food choices might also make an interesting discussion.

If it continues on this track, I'll have to send it to a different forum.
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Old 08-02-2005, 09:51 AM   #16
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I don't think there should be any fences for bison....just let them roam like they used to. If they run into people, maybe the people should carry guns in case of danger, else just ignore them. We are become a rather sissy culture, when we are afraid of animals without immediate cause in many cases..
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Old 08-02-2005, 10:16 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mr Manifesto
Let me say straight up where I stand on veganism. I ain't one. Not only do I eat honey, cheese and eggs, but I also eat most types of meat with the exception of rabbit, pork, and whatever I don't happen to like the taste of (octopus comes immediately to mind, along with several other types of seafood).

Glad to get that out of the way.

Vegans tend to justify* their choice along the lines of 'killing animals causes suffering, suffering is wrong, therefore killing animals is wrong'. A valid argument - but are the premises true?

Kangaroos, left alone, can reach unsustainable numbers in Australia (Source... Note this source doesn't mention one other reason for increasing numbers in the kangaroo population: their predator was the indigenous population, which has been displaced by European colonists meaning they effectively have no predators except the odd feral dog). What this means in a country where water is scarce is that these animals die in large numbers... slowly. Farmers often report (for example, in Mudgee and Gulgong) during times of drought of kangaroos dying of thirst and starvation.

Here's the problem: If it causes less suffering to kill the kangaroos quickly (ie, with a rifle) than to let them die naturally, is it wrong in this instance to kill kangaroos? And, if so, does this not undermine the argument for veganism?
Just to attack the best argument that could be presented so as to avoid a possible strawman, a logically consistent vegan might say that nature is taking its course in the case of overpopulation and starvation. Humans do not cause this suffering, the animals themselves do. Suffering itself is not the problem, it's the infliction of suffering on another animal by an animal that is capable of surviving without doing so that is the problem. Humans can understand that they are hurting an animal, and they can survive without doing this. So you might say that premise two is not specific enough. Suffering alone is not wrong, unneccessary suffering inflicted by a human is wrong, where 'unnecessary' means that the human could survive just fine without the action.

As an unrelated aside, I find it odd that things like honey and cheese are off limits for vegans. No harm needs to be caused by collecting these things. Even unfertilized eggs would be harmless, I would think.
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Old 08-02-2005, 12:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by yalla
Ah Mr. Manifesto I'm afraid I am going to have to criticise your source[s].
Let me explain.
I own a property, complete with 3 species of kangaroos, in the rangelands of Australia-as referred to in your source the Australian government.
And we have just had 2 years of severe drought.
Not extreme 1 in 50 years type drought but pretty bad.
And the kangaroos on my property barely noticed.
They just shut their reproductive systems down...they can do that.
You see in the Oz rural areas there is an old motto ..."if it moves shoot it, if it stands still cut it down''. And that ethos is still alive and well in my and other regions of Oz and penetrates to official government policy.
Locals around here shoot roos, legally and illegally, at the drop of a hat. I can personally vouch for that. It's pervasive.
If you want to get a licence to "cull" [nice word that] roos a simple phone call is sufficient. I know, I got offered a kill licence by the relevant authority without even wanting or asking for one.

[Hey I just checked, you are one of us, surely this is not news to you?]

To continue...
Roos rarely starve, it has happened but rarely, their adaptation to drought is so efficient.
And they don't compete with domestic stock even when on the same land.Sheep and cattle graze differently to roos, much less efficiently.
Many years ago some W.A. agriculturalist academic pointed out that the economic value of raising roos on a given piece of rangeland would far outweigh that of sheep/cattle. I would strongly support commercial cultivation of roos.
I'm afraid that we are the victims of cultural and economic inertia in this regard and the Oz govt. dept is just exercising apologia.
And I'm not adverse to a nice piece of roo steak, the last time I ate roo was a couple of days ago.
To answer your criticism, normally they can adapt to drought if their numbers are at 'normal' (ie, pre-colonial) levels. However, if the population explodes due to farming (because of the availability of dams) and the dams dry up, you're left with a stack of roos with no water and competing for scarce food.

I just remembered I saw a documentary on the El Nino effect that showed roos starving. I wish I knew the name of it, it would be a handy source.
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Old 08-02-2005, 12:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by long winded fool
Just to attack the best argument that could be presented so as to avoid a possible strawman, a logically consistent vegan might say that nature is taking its course in the case of overpopulation and starvation. Humans do not cause this suffering, the animals themselves do. Suffering itself is not the problem, it's the infliction of suffering on another animal by an animal that is capable of surviving without doing so that is the problem. Humans can understand that they are hurting an animal, and they can survive without doing this. So you might say that premise two is not specific enough. Suffering alone is not wrong, unneccessary suffering inflicted by a human is wrong, where 'unnecessary' means that the human could survive just fine without the action.
Good point. That could easily be inferred from 'suffering', especially given many vegans' proclivity to 'naturalness'.

Quote:
As an unrelated aside, I find it odd that things like honey and cheese are off limits for vegans. No harm needs to be caused by collecting these things. Even unfertilized eggs would be harmless, I would think.
Well, what can I say... They're fucking weirdos (Ah, shit, forgot my promise in the OP :devil1: :devil1: ).
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Old 08-02-2005, 01:06 PM   #20
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premjan: I don't think there should be any fences for bison....just let them roam like they used to. If they run into people, maybe the people should carry guns in case of danger, else just ignore them. We are become a rather sissy culture, when we are afraid of animals without immediate cause in many cases..
Well, I guess the ethical question here is if bison must be contained, unlike roos, for public safety. I would like to see free ranging bison as you suggest, very much, and even a move toward replacing cattle with ranched bison. And I'd be ok with the cost of either. But, a lot of folks that like to drive fast in open country, and not so open country, are going to be very peeved when they start hitting gigantic bags of dense bone, meat, water going 70 mph---and hominids start getting killed. Deer are skittish, and *usually*[not always] not lethal. Bison are not especially clever/insightful, and are like wandering hazards. Not esp redirectible either. And fencing etc would be quite expensive nationwide.

They are more akin to grizzlies, wolves, tigers and elephants. People romanticize the idea, but don't want them as neighbors and don't want surprises from them. Therefore they are kept in giant zoos known as parks.

Also, cattle folks are very biased against bison d/t tb and disease issues and tend to cling dearly to these biases.
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