Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Albion · 08-06-2002, 10:58 AM

Quote:

But I will say this,I read alot on you guys wanting scientific proof, well, all I can say is go to your search and type in Dr. Kent Hovind or Carl Baugh. They will have all the proof you need.

Science doesn't give you proof. And if we wanted scientific explanations, we'd go to the people who are doing that work, not to the people who are trashing it. Some of us are scientists; we do know what science is, and we know what Kent Hovind is doing.

Quote:

If you are so open minded then you will enjoy these web sites. Also, if you have already read their stuff, then why couldn't they be right?

I don't think most of us are open-minded enough to enjoy deliberate lies intended to mislead ignorant people and cast aspersions on the scientific process. And reading that stuff doesn't make it right.

scigirl · 08-06-2002, 10:59 AM

Welcome to infidels, sandi!

Feel free to introduce yourself <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=43" target="_blank">here</a> if you like. What part of Texas are you from?

Quote:

Originally posted by sandi:
I am deeply sorry to hear that a preacher said that evolution is evil. I am a believer in Jesus Christ,but I don't think of evolution as evil.

Good!

Quote:

I view it as just another belief in our world.

Ok, except as a scientist, I don't really "believe" in evolution. Rather, I believe that the theory best explains the evidence, such as <a href="http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html" target="_blank">chimp chromosome pieces in our chromosomes</a>.

Quote:

all I can say is go to your search and type in Dr. Kent Hovind or Carl Baugh. They will have all the proof you need.

Oh boy. Here's a hint - use the search function in this very forum for those names, especially Hovind.

Quote:

you will enjoy these web sites.

Oh we enjoy them alright. Endless source of humor!

Actually I don't find them funny. Like I said to someone recently, those sites are an example of the dangers of combining ignorance with righteous arrogance.

Hope you stick around and learn a thing or two!

scigirl

ps418 · 08-06-2002, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sandi:
But I will say this,I read alot on you guys wanting scientific proof, well, all I can say is go to your search and type in Dr. Kent Hovind or Carl Baugh.

These guys are a couple of intellectual lightweights who have an aversion to telling the truth. If you want to see a real expert, check out Ken Ham.

Camaban · 08-06-2002, 03:33 PM

Quote:

These guys are a couple of intellectual lightweights who have an aversion to telling the truth. If you want to see a real expert, check out Ken Ham.

*is ashamed to be wanting to get into the same University as Ken Ham went to, albeit for a completely different course*

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Camaban ]

KnightWhoSaysNi · 08-06-2002, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sandi:
To Wyrdsmyth,
I am deeply sorry to hear that a preacher said that evolution is evil. I am a believer in Jesus Christ,but I don't think of evolution as evil. I view it as just another belief in our world.
But I will say this,I read alot on you guys wanting scientific proof, well, all I can say is go to your search and type in Dr. Kent Hovind or Carl Baugh. They will have all the proof you need.
If you are so open minded then you will enjoy these web sites. Also, if you have already read their stuff, then why couldn't they be right?
Thanks!

Hi Sandi,

Welcome to the forum.

I'm glad that you don't consider evolution to be "evil." In addition to what the others above have said and their links, with all due respect, Carl Baugh and Kent Hovind have likely the worst possible reputations among prominent creationists. Even the Young Earth Creationist organization <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dont_use.asp" target="_blank">Answers in Genesis</a> find them pretty dubious. Here's a quote from AIG:

Quote:

Many of Carl Baugh�s creation �evidences�. Sorry to say, AiG thinks that he�s well meaning but that he unfortunately uses a lot of material that is not sound scientifically. So we advise against relying on any �evidence� he provides, unless supported by creationist organisations with reputations for Biblical and scientific rigour. Unfortunately, there are talented creationist speakers with reasonably orthodox understandings of Genesis (e.g. Kent Hovind) who continue to promote some of the Wyatt and Baugh �evidences� despite being approached on the matter.

I might also point out that there are "believers in Jesus Christ" like yourself who do accept evolution. Perhaps you're familiar with the <a href="http://www.asa3.org/" target="_blank">American Scientific Affiliation</a>, an organization of scientists who are commited evangelical Christians. Many of their members accept a <a href="http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/Evolution/commission_on_creation.html#Commission%20on%20Crea tion" target="_blank">theistic evolution</a> view:

Quote:

Statement on Creation:

Theistic Evolution (Continuous Creation, Evolutionary Creation) View

Theological Statements:

In addition to the theological commitments affirmed by all parties, ASA members who accept an evolutionary* perspective, would affirm the following:

1. God is free to act in creation in any way consistent with His character. The nature of the physical universe and of God's interaction is a consequence of God's free choice.

2. Evolutionary processes* are not antithetical to God's creative action. Furthermore, nothing in scripture provides a theological basis for rejecting the descent of all living beings from a common ancestor, including humans.

3. An evolutionary* view of the history of life provides a positive, productive context for understanding God's relationship to creation, and our role as His image bearers. It also provides a fruitful context for considering the meaning and implications of Christology and the cross.

4. Christians should rejoice and praise God for each new revelation of the history and character of the creation, for each new discovery that fills previous gaps in our scientific understanding.

[ August 06, 2002: Message edited by: Nightshade ]

Starboy · 08-06-2002, 08:02 PM

Welcome sandi,

Thank you for your tolerance. Can you tell me if it would really matter to your faith if you did think that evolution was how man got here?

Starboy

hezekiah jones · 08-06-2002, 08:30 PM

"I don't think evolution is evil, but I would like to recommend the thoughts of someone how does."

Cipher Girl · 08-06-2002, 10:11 PM

Hi Sandi

Welcome to the forums. I hope you stick around, it will be nice chatting with you. These two creationists have a particularily low reputation among even creationists. Especially Ken Hovind (Dr. Dino) with his dinosaurs on the ark and black helicopter nonsense.

I hope you read articles on both sides of the issue. You'll notice a trend in the creationism articles, that of incorrectly stating quotes of scientists. Also a lot of creationists either blow up minor disagreements among scientists and claim that this is proof that evolution is not true. Then they claim that this is proof that creationism is true. This is the same as saying "You did not eat a hamburger for lunch, therefore you must have have eaten a hot dog." Hey, I could have eaten a ham sandwich instead.

Simply stating evolution is not true does not imply that creationism is true.

Again, welcome and have fun in the forums and don't take anything too seriously.

Caverdude · 08-06-2002, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wyrdsmyth:


I'm annoyed and concerned about this enshrinement of ignorance that is going on in our culture. Are we out to look for the truth, or do we just want to declare the truth? Do we have to make evidence fit into the narrow views our ancestors had, or are we free to make new theories and conjectures? Are we to assume that all evolutionary biologists, astrophysicists and geologists over the past few centuries have been possessed by Satan and his horde of demons, or not?

AMEN!!! You are absolutely correct in that ignorance is spreading and it starts in our schools. Why do you think that creationists work so hard at swaying school boards to warp the curriculum to their views? They then get a whole new crop of scientifically illiterate people to work their propaganda on. Just imagine, some people actually think that Ken Hovind and Carl Baugh are good sources of scientific information.

babelfish · 08-07-2002, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sandi:
If you are so open minded then you will enjoy these web sites. Also, if you have already read their stuff, then why couldn't they be right?
Thanks!

I can't remember who said this, but I certainly concur: It's good to be open-minded, just not so open-minded that your brain falls out!

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08-06-2002, 08:02 PM	#16
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Welcome sandi, Thank you for your tolerance. Can you tell me if it would really matter to your faith if you did think that evolution was how man got here? Starboy

08-06-2002, 08:30 PM	#17
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	"I don't think evolution is evil, but I would like to recommend the thoughts of someone how does."

08-06-2002, 10:11 PM	#18
Cipher Girl Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Sunny Southern California Posts: 657	Hi Sandi Welcome to the forums. I hope you stick around, it will be nice chatting with you. These two creationists have a particularily low reputation among even creationists. Especially Ken Hovind (Dr. Dino) with his dinosaurs on the ark and black helicopter nonsense. I hope you read articles on both sides of the issue. You'll notice a trend in the creationism articles, that of incorrectly stating quotes of scientists. Also a lot of creationists either blow up minor disagreements among scientists and claim that this is proof that evolution is not true. Then they claim that this is proof that creationism is true. This is the same as saying "You did not eat a hamburger for lunch, therefore you must have have eaten a hot dog." Hey, I could have eaten a ham sandwich instead. Simply stating evolution is not true does not imply that creationism is true. Again, welcome and have fun in the forums and don't take anything too seriously.

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